Do you think uni is value for money?

Poll

Do you think uni is/will be value for money?

The survey of 15,000 students shows perceptions of "good value for money" have fallen to 37% from 53% in 2012.

The survey suggests that a lack of teaching hours for some courses is causing this sense of disappointment. Universities Minister Jo Johnson says universities must respond to students with a "sharper eye for value".

The Student Academic Experience Survey, produced by the Higher Education Policy Institute and the Higher Education Academy, shows a gap between high levels of satisfaction with courses and falling levels of students believing that they are getting value.

Courses with low levels of contact hours, such as history, English, languages and social sciences are rated as being less good value, compared with physical sciences, engineering and medicine, which have longer hours of structured study.Nick Hillman, director of the Higher Education Policy Institute, said "students really, really care about contact hours".

Full BBC news story

How do you think the value of uni can be increased? Do you want more contact hours?

(edited 7 years ago)

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Reply 1

Charles III

Original post by She-Ra

Full BBC news story

How do you think the value of uni can be increased? Do you want more contact hours?

Value for money? No way! £9,000 a year for limited contact hours and treatment as if we're naughty children when we even email lecturers to ask a question (source: other people that aren't me, bit biased, shhhh). It's shameful. Considering just how much I'll be paying for Uni, I will make sure to squeeze every last drop of value out of my £48,000 student loan (plus maintenance loan + 4 year degree :emo:

) — nobody is going to deny me that or they'll face my wrath of me sending them passive-aggressive emails every few days. :h:

<— featuring the passive-aggressive smiley faces in odd places too…

I do appreciate however that lecturers will be very pressed for time and will have to manage many students, however… that is at the fault of the University and their management unfortunately. That's how I see it.

Woah, that was pretty ferocious. :lol:

*exhale*

Spoiler

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 2

M14B

Total rip off at £37.50 for a lecture per student.
(same rate as one to one tuition)

Reply 3

Elivercury

To be honest, I think a lot of it relates more to employment prospects rather than the studies themselves.

As it stands, if you get into, say £35k debt (an average amount for a three year course these days), you would need to earn an average of £35,000 over the next 29 years (assuming you graduate at 21) to pay this off IGNORING interest.

In reality, you will at best case be paying off about £55k (1.04^29/2), which will require a £42k average salary across 29 years.

How many degree jobs result in a salary of that level? Sure of course it gets written off at 50 and so many people will not pay it back (or even half of it), but if you are to assess the value of something you need to assess the cost and the cost is pretty damn high.

Reply 4

Killerpenguin15

Ultimately depends on the subject you want to study and the career prospects that come with it.

Also, just because you need to earn an average of £35k - £40k per year to pay off all your student debt doesn't mean you need to be starting on this kind of salary. You may well start on £25K a year and work your way up to earning £65k as a final salary, for example.

Otherwise, your student debt gets cleared after 30 years, so yes, University is very good value for money in the long run.

Reply 5

Loyota

No one is forcing you to go. If you say no, DON'T GO - simple solution people.

Reply 6

Tian1Sky

It's not a yes or no question, it depends on what course you're doing and which university you go to. I would also like to clarify that a language degree does not necessarily mean few contact hours (I know from experience). If I worked out the hourly rate I was paying it would work out very reasonably, especially since class sizes are very small in my course.

Reply 7

Plagioclase

I actually do still think it's good value for money for me, despite my opinions about tuition fees. I do think I am getting my money's worth.

Reply 8

Nayzar

Original post by M14B

Total rip off at £37.50 for a lecture per student.
(same rate as one to one tuition)

Thats a really interesting way to put it. How did you arrive at that number?

Reply 9

rxns_00

Yes. I'll never pay it off in full, it doesn't affect my credit score, I get access to postgraduate positions plus I need university education for my chosen career.
Don't care how much it costs a year to be quite frank, it's not like I have to pay for it in cash on the day. It'll get written off when I'm 50 something so

Reply 10

M14B

Original post by Nayzar

Thats a really interesting way to put it. How did you arrive at that number?

Divided £9000 by the number of lectures I got at my uni during the first year

Reply 11

Nayzar

Original post by M14B

Divided £9000 by the number of lectures I got at my uni during the first year

Should have asked a more direct question sorry. I meant how many lectures do you have a week, and how many have you had in the whole year?
I'm not at uni yet so I dont have much of an idea of contact time. Speaking of that - did you factor in non-lecture contact time as well?

Reply 12

Elivercury

Original post by Killerpenguin15

This is of course correct, however realistically how many people earn 65k a year at any stage of their salary? 1/20 people? 1/50?

Also, a lot of the more profitable courses such as engineering, law, medicine all take longer than three years so the amount they need to earn is even higher. I would honestly be surprised if more than 1-2% of students are able to pay back their loans assuming they take the maximum available to them.

I mean, sure they get written off, but it's clearly a ludicrous system. There is also no guarantee they won't suddenly decide that they DON'T get written off at 50 and people take them to retirement. Unlikely, but it wouldn't be the first significant change against what they promised.

Reply 13

M14B

Original post by Nayzar

12 a week for 20 weeks = 240 lectures.

I did not include 40 hours tutorials as they are a total waste of time and I stopped going. In the second year there are no tutorials

Reply 14

Elivercury

Original post by Nayzar

What non-lecture contact time? That's just non-contact time. Or "the rest of the day" as I like to refer to it.

Reply 15

Nayzar

Original post by Elivercury

What non-lecture contact time? That's just non-contact time. Or "the rest of the day" as I like to refer to it.

Haha no its not just all lectures. Well it might be for some/most courses idk but for medicine (the only one i know about) contact time includes lectures, tutorials, group discussion and clinical experience

Reply 16

ineedtorevise127

Not really but many jobs require a degree nowadays. That being said, the competition for graduate jobs is fierce something like 1 place for 85 applications last time I heard it has become like winning the lottery

Reply 17

999tigger

For Oxbridge graduates and some niche Unis, then yes becayse of the massively increased employment prospects.
For the vast majority of students, then I think it's a no. You could use that money a lot better to improve your life and employment propsects.
For many students its an utter disaster and they shouldnt be at Uni.

I am all for equal access, but I feel:

1. Many unis exist just to pump money out of students, its a business first and much less about education or ensuring your provide a good product.
2. Many students are naive and they take on all the debt without realising or caring the longer term implications. There ought to be compulsory classes on finance including whether or not you need to go to Uni and whether other alternatives might be better.

You could have an interesting debate on this. There are many students leaving uni with a whole lot of debt, average degrees and questionable futures.

Reply 18

username1560589

Original post by M14B

Total rip off at £37.50 for a lecture per student.
(same rate as one to one tuition)

Original post by M14B

12 a week for 20 weeks = 240 lectures.

I did not include 40 hours tutorials as they are a total waste of time and I stopped going. In the second year there are no tutorials

The average load for my course is about 315 lectures in 1st year, which is £28.57 per lecture. Your 12 hours a week for 20 weeks seems quite low.
You can go to many more lectures for free if you want and you can sign up for societies which give extra lectures for a few quid a year. This doesn't take into account classes, access to the library and access to other resources. Not to mention the economic benefit of the degree.
We're assuming that you pay off the whole loan eventually.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 19

Jazzyboy

I think the social life and the experience of living on your own while studying are very valuable. I live in a rural area atm, and wouldn't be able to find a decent job while living at home. Moving to uni accomodation is pretty much the most affordable way for me to move out and build a decent career for myself.

Then of course there's also the degree itself, which gives you a lot of valuable skills for high-paying jobs.(assuming you do a decent degree) I'm going to be doing Computer Science, which will be a big boost to my plans to become a software engineer. Yes, I know, I could do it independently, but it's not so easy when you're living in a rural area and have to work in a stressful retail job while you're trying to study.(if I left education, I'd have to work full time, and considering my feet are screwed up; doing a job where I'm on my feet all day full time would be incredibly stressful and painful)

I also just enjoy academic learning, and I want to keep enjoying the experience for as long as I can.

Oh and I very much doubt that we're suddenly going to be asked to pay the debt early in a decade's time like some people are worrying about, so I'm not at all panicked about the debt. Obviously though, I will be saving up after uni to pay off the debt. I'm not going to just pretend it doesn't exist.

On the other hand, I do think unis need to provide better service. I've heard about this nonsense of tutors refusing to remark work if a student contests a grade, on the basis that the student is unqualified to comment on the way that their work is graded. Technically, the student is paying ridiculous amounts of money for the uni's services, even on a loan, so surely the unis should be able to spare a small amount of their time to maintain quality control.(as in, making sure that the grading is done thoroughly to a high standard)
It's certainly not good value if you end up getting screwed over because a tutor didn't mark your work properly and failed you, so you never get the qualification that you paid the uni to help you attain.