I think Britain is going to remain in the EU.
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Original post by EuanF
Tariffs hurt the EU, not those external to the EU (which is why we want out)
That is a gross oversimplification and therefore totally wrong. It can be argued that EU consumers face higher prices as you said but producers in the EU benefit from a total lack of non-EU competition. External exporters to the EU suffer which is why I asked you about the possible tariffs the UK will face if we leave and you didn't answer.
Original post by Bill Tort
Where do you get the information that enables you to conclude that Britain's economic and job security has anything, at all, to do with our EU membership? If this is the case why are around 20% of young people of France, Spain, Italy, Portugal, France and all the other Eastern and Southern member states unemployed? Considering how well-off we are in Germany and Britain, why aren't the other, mentioned countries not equally as well off, considering that our trade deficit with the EU is WELL in excess of £1billion PER WEEK (one thousand million pounds per week)? For pity's sake grow up, fact check what you are told and learn something about the EU before its too late. Does it mean nothing to you that the EU is recognised as being anti-democratic, does it mean nothing to you that the citizen don't elect the commissioners and council, can't replace them and can't remove them?
Do you want to elaborate on how the trade deficit will magically fix itself once we leave?
Just received a lovely brexit leaftlet through my letterbox.
Featuring such delights as this:
"Countries set to join the EU" *
Oh look, a big red Turkey right beside the helpfully signposted Syria and Iraq.
Population 76.0 million all just about to arrive in this scepter'd isle.
*when?
Answer not for years, if ever http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35832035
*so what?
Does Boris Johnson not welcome the countrymen & women of his great-grandfather (Ali Kemal) and all his Turkish cousins?
Featuring such delights as this:
"Countries set to join the EU" *
Oh look, a big red Turkey right beside the helpfully signposted Syria and Iraq.
Population 76.0 million all just about to arrive in this scepter'd isle.
*when?
Answer not for years, if ever http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35832035
*so what?
Does Boris Johnson not welcome the countrymen & women of his great-grandfather (Ali Kemal) and all his Turkish cousins?
The last time I posted on here I was unaware that I had in my possession a pristine unread copy of the May 14th edition of The Spectator.
Not sure what anyone will make of it but here is some of what Toby Young wrote in it which I havnt edited to make any case;
"One of the interesting features of the Brexit debate is that it has laid bare a schism in British society which runs much deeper than the traditional Tory Labour divide."
Much of the next 2/3 of the article is concerned with affirming the general belief that remainers are indeed better educated etc etc than the leavers.
He then concludes,
"In fact,I think the growing chasm between the winners and the losers from globalisation is a reason to vote leave.The Europhiles naively imagine that in 30 years the whole country will look more like them. But as mass migration continues and more and more jobs are done by robots Britain will look more like Clacton,not Edinburgh South (referred to in the article)."
………………
For Britain to avoid this fate ,the metropolitan elite must take some responsibility for the residents of England's depressed seaside towns not scorn them.
And they're more likely to do that if they identify as Britons first and Europeans second.
Nationalism,for all its shortcomings,creates a shared sense of belonging that's essential if the haves are ever going to give a helping hand to the have nots . Let's embrace the people who've been left behind by globalisation by voting leave not cut them adrift by voting remain."
Not sure what anyone will make of it but here is some of what Toby Young wrote in it which I havnt edited to make any case;
"One of the interesting features of the Brexit debate is that it has laid bare a schism in British society which runs much deeper than the traditional Tory Labour divide."
Much of the next 2/3 of the article is concerned with affirming the general belief that remainers are indeed better educated etc etc than the leavers.
He then concludes,
"In fact,I think the growing chasm between the winners and the losers from globalisation is a reason to vote leave.The Europhiles naively imagine that in 30 years the whole country will look more like them. But as mass migration continues and more and more jobs are done by robots Britain will look more like Clacton,not Edinburgh South (referred to in the article)."
………………
For Britain to avoid this fate ,the metropolitan elite must take some responsibility for the residents of England's depressed seaside towns not scorn them.
And they're more likely to do that if they identify as Britons first and Europeans second.
Nationalism,for all its shortcomings,creates a shared sense of belonging that's essential if the haves are ever going to give a helping hand to the have nots . Let's embrace the people who've been left behind by globalisation by voting leave not cut them adrift by voting remain."
(edited 7 years ago)
Meanwhile The Cornish Pasty Association says:
http://www.cornishpastyassociation.co.uk/2016/06/a-statement-on-europe/
CORNISH PASTY ASSOCIATION MAKES STATEMENT ON EUROPE
The Cornish Pasty Association has today made a statement supporting Britain remaining in the European Union.
The Association, made up of Cornish pasty producers of all sizes from across Cornwall, has been asked numerous times about the impact of a possible exit from the EU on the protection of the Cornish pasty name. The Association’s board recently decided that, after working so hard for so many years to gain recognition for the Cornish pasty through the EU Protected Food Names scheme, it would be wholly inappropriate for it to support anything that could potentially impact on that status.
Speaking on behalf of the Cornish Pasty Association, Chairman Jason Jobling commented, “As an organisation that has benefitted from the EU protected food names system, and no clear evidence available to demonstrate that Brexit would enable that protection to continue, the CPA supports Britain remaining in the EU and being able to participate in that system.”
/endthread
http://www.cornishpastyassociation.co.uk/2016/06/a-statement-on-europe/
CORNISH PASTY ASSOCIATION MAKES STATEMENT ON EUROPE
The Cornish Pasty Association has today made a statement supporting Britain remaining in the European Union.
The Association, made up of Cornish pasty producers of all sizes from across Cornwall, has been asked numerous times about the impact of a possible exit from the EU on the protection of the Cornish pasty name. The Association’s board recently decided that, after working so hard for so many years to gain recognition for the Cornish pasty through the EU Protected Food Names scheme, it would be wholly inappropriate for it to support anything that could potentially impact on that status.
Speaking on behalf of the Cornish Pasty Association, Chairman Jason Jobling commented, “As an organisation that has benefitted from the EU protected food names system, and no clear evidence available to demonstrate that Brexit would enable that protection to continue, the CPA supports Britain remaining in the EU and being able to participate in that system.”
/endthread
And in the May 28th edition he writes,
" My view is that sooner or later an anti EU party or politician will gain power in a European state that isn't a basket case and that will trigger a crisis in the EU.
…………………
Over the past half-century,many Europeans entered into a Faustian pact:they gave up their rights as free people in return for prosperity and security.
But the devil hasn't kept his side of the deal and Dr Faustus is getting restless.
How will people react when the EU tells them the pact is irreversible?
My guess is,not well,and whether Britain votes to remain or to leave,the EU cannot survive in its present,undemocratic form."
" My view is that sooner or later an anti EU party or politician will gain power in a European state that isn't a basket case and that will trigger a crisis in the EU.
…………………
Over the past half-century,many Europeans entered into a Faustian pact:they gave up their rights as free people in return for prosperity and security.
But the devil hasn't kept his side of the deal and Dr Faustus is getting restless.
How will people react when the EU tells them the pact is irreversible?
My guess is,not well,and whether Britain votes to remain or to leave,the EU cannot survive in its present,undemocratic form."
Sorry for the perhaps unsuitable choice of thread, but I need to ask something: what do you think would happen to university fees for EU students in case of Brexit? Apparently they would rise to the same level as they are for international students, but would they change after the vote or after the departure is official, and would they change for students mid-degree or only for students beginning their degree?
I've put so so so much effort into applying to Britain to study Medicine for 2017 entry and it would be such a shame if it turned out I couldn't do that due to the ridiculously high fees...
I've put so so so much effort into applying to Britain to study Medicine for 2017 entry and it would be such a shame if it turned out I couldn't do that due to the ridiculously high fees...
Original post by Bill Tort
Where do you get the information that enables you to conclude that Britain's economic and job security has anything, at all, to do with our EU membership? If this is the case why are around 20% of young people of France, Spain, Italy, Portugal, France and all the other Eastern and Southern member states unemployed? Considering how well-off we are in Germany and Britain, why aren't the other, mentioned countries not equally as well off, considering that our trade deficit with the EU is WELL in excess of £1billion PER WEEK (one thousand million pounds per week)? For pity's sake grow up, fact check what you are told and learn something about the EU before its too late. Does it mean nothing to you that the EU is recognised as being anti-democratic, does it mean nothing to you that the citizen don't elect the commissioners and council, can't replace them and can't remove them?
Venezuela is not in the EU and they haven't even got toilet paper.
Original post by StationToStation
Sorry for the perhaps unsuitable choice of thread, but I need to ask something: what do you think would happen to university fees for EU students in case of Brexit? Apparently they would rise to the same level as they are for international students, but would they change after the vote or after the departure is official, and would they change for students mid-degree or only for students beginning their degree?
I've put so so so much effort into applying to Britain to study Medicine for 2017 entry and it would be such a shame if it turned out I couldn't do that due to the ridiculously high fees...
I've put so so so much effort into applying to Britain to study Medicine for 2017 entry and it would be such a shame if it turned out I couldn't do that due to the ridiculously high fees...
It won't happen for at least 2 years. If it happens at all. And would be unlikely to affect students already at university.
Original post by jneill
It won't happen for at least 2 years. If it happens at all. And would be unlikely to affect students already at university.
Great to hear, thanks! Now I don't need to worry so much of the results.
Original post by StationToStation
Sorry for the perhaps unsuitable choice of thread, but I need to ask something: what do you think would happen to university fees for EU students in case of Brexit? Apparently they would rise to the same level as they are for international students, but would they change after the vote or after the departure is official, and would they change for students mid-degree or only for students beginning their degree?
I've put so so so much effort into applying to Britain to study Medicine for 2017 entry and it would be such a shame if it turned out I couldn't do that due to the ridiculously high fees...
I've put so so so much effort into applying to Britain to study Medicine for 2017 entry and it would be such a shame if it turned out I couldn't do that due to the ridiculously high fees...
I really do think that it's unlikely that we will be leaving so don't worry.
It's clear that the Remain campaign will stop at nothing to get us over the line.
(And thats fine by me . I sincerely believe that this country can cope with another 10 million migrants over the next 20 years. One of the benefits would be that the NHS would have to become a two tier system. At the present time 80 % of the public would be vehemently against this but they will change their minds when they have to wait far longer for certain treatments )
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Trill
Assuming you are a student on the student room, it's worrying that you would cite Wikipedia.
Momentarily, we do not need a visa for the countries in the EU. Once we leave the EU, we have renegotiate these terms so that we still maintain the no visa policy. Which can take up 15 years according to the Labour Party.
Momentarily, we do not need a visa for the countries in the EU. Once we leave the EU, we have renegotiate these terms so that we still maintain the no visa policy. Which can take up 15 years according to the Labour Party.
Next time do you want them to spoiler 300+ citations to give you the exact same information? Criticism of using a well cited Wikipedia page is a simple case of "I want to reject your argument but don't know how to"
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Original post by Hendrix Lives
If we do leave then youll be the first to cry about higher food,dearer petrol,higher costs for flying abroad,dearer mortgage,higher electricity and gas prices,think it wont happen,think again.
okay, so let me ask you this:
imagine that the EU evolves (or devolves*) into a genuine (perhaps unitary) super state, above our federal structure contemporarily. is *that* enough to advance the argument of leaving, even though we might be damaged economically? answer me this hypothetical question. because it seems like you will never be prepared to suffer an economic short term cost for a long term political gain. your approach to this is like the approach of a drug addict! you can't possibly envision getting clean of your economic fix even though long term this is going to deteriorate the health of the concept of democracy and political legitimacy! you don't seem to recognise that whatsoever though
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by sleepysnooze
okay, so let me ask you this:
imagine that the EU evolves (or devolves*) into a genuine (perhaps unitary) super state, above our federal structure contemporarily. is *that* enough to advance the argument of leaving, even though we might be damaged economically? answer me this hypothetical question. because it seems like you will never be prepared to suffer an economic short term cost for a long term political gain. your approach to this is like the approach of a drug addict! you can't possibly envision getting clean of your economic fix even though long term this is going to deteriorate the health of the concept of democracy and political legitimacy! you don't seem to recognise that whatsoever though
imagine that the EU evolves (or devolves*) into a genuine (perhaps unitary) super state, above our federal structure contemporarily. is *that* enough to advance the argument of leaving, even though we might be damaged economically? answer me this hypothetical question. because it seems like you will never be prepared to suffer an economic short term cost for a long term political gain. your approach to this is like the approach of a drug addict! you can't possibly envision getting clean of your economic fix even though long term this is going to deteriorate the health of the concept of democracy and political legitimacy! you don't seem to recognise that whatsoever though
Sleepy,you would be sleepwalking straight into an abyss.
'Economic short term' no,economic long term as in 10 years minimum.
What WILL happen if we leave is simple,Germany,France and Spain will have a leave or stay poll within a year,all three will leave,our E.U. Army would disband and all hell would break out.
Original post by generallee
The point I was justifiably ridiculing was that Gibraltar would become another Falklands and be invaded. Yet another scare story that the gullible voter might believe which needs to laughed out of the debate.
No-one serious thinks it will happen (you don't yourself) so why do Remain raise it? It just makes the conversation sink lower into the sewer of lies.
.
No-one serious thinks it will happen (you don't yourself) so why do Remain raise it? It just makes the conversation sink lower into the sewer of lies.
.
Who said Gibraltar would be invaded? I simply said that Spain would close the borders so that it would take hours for workers to get across on a normal day.
Instead, you want to bring up the red herring of invasion. No one is talking to about that.
That is why 99% of people in Gibraltar are voting to remain.
Original post by Hendrix Lives
Sleepy,you would be sleepwalking straight into an abyss.
'Economic short term' no,economic long term as in 10 years minimum.
What WILL happen if we leave is simple,Germany,France and Spain will have a leave or stay poll within a year,all three will leave,our E.U. Army would disband and all hell would break out.
'Economic short term' no,economic long term as in 10 years minimum.
What WILL happen if we leave is simple,Germany,France and Spain will have a leave or stay poll within a year,all three will leave,our E.U. Army would disband and all hell would break out.
how about answer my (as clearly stated) hypothetical question, not try and make unfunny jokes. if the EU is a protectionist group, then this is where we disagree in terms of the long term benefits/detriments, but my point still stands: if the EU was to become a super state with CLEAR political costs to local UK democracy and political legitimacy, how much of an economic benefit would you be willing to tolerate? answer me simply this, because it appears, like I was telling you previously, that you're willing to give up our democracy entirely for any kind of tiny economic gain (alleged gain, of course) which is ****ing horrifying.
Original post by sleepysnooze
how about answer my (as clearly stated) hypothetical question, not try and make unfunny jokes. if the EU is a protectionist group, then this is where we disagree in terms of the long term benefits/detriments, but my point still stands: if the EU was to become a super state with CLEAR political costs to local UK democracy and political legitimacy, how much of an economic benefit would you be willing to tolerate? answer me simply this, because it appears, like I was telling you previously, that you're willing to give up our democracy entirely for any kind of tiny economic gain (alleged gain, of course) which is ****ing horrifying.
The E.U. isn't a protectionist group of nations,it's a community,as in Common Market.
Go down to your local town or village market and you'll see various people sell their wares,THAT.is a community,have you anything against these people who wish to see cheese from Holland,pizzas from Italy,sausages/beer from Germany and so forth,it seems like it to me.
One thing though,I do not wish to see Turkey anywhere near the E.U. under any circumstances whatsover.
Original post by Hendrix Lives
We will see tonight,Boring Boris wont catch a wink of sleep after Nicola has finished with him,he hasn't got it up top,never has and never willmshe will tear him a new arse.
Well, if that is the case we must congratulate him for his achievements, pretty stunning for a "bear of little brain."
Whilst he may not come across well at times I think I would be pretty cautious labeling him absent grey matter, he is not stupid, erratic yes, sometimes does not play well with an audience, yes, but not stupid.
Original post by DorianGrayism
Who said Gibraltar would be invaded? I simply said that Spain would close the borders so that it would take hours for workers to get across on a normal day.
Instead, you want to bring up the red herring of invasion. No one is talking to about that.
That is why 99% of people in Gibraltar are voting to remain.
Instead, you want to bring up the red herring of invasion. No one is talking to about that.
That is why 99% of people in Gibraltar are voting to remain.
A pro Remain poster on this thread talked of the danger of Gibraltar becoming another Falklands if we dared to leave the EU as a country. As you will know, those islands' only claim to fame in the last couple of centuries is that they were invaded by Argentina in 1982.
So why mention the Falklands at all? To scare people. What other reason could there be?
Original post by generallee
A pro Remain poster on this thread talked of the danger of Gibraltar becoming another Falklands if we dared to leave the EU as a country. As you will know, those islands' only claim to fame in the last couple of centuries is that they were invaded by Argentina in 1982.
So why mention the Falklands at all? To scare people. What other reason could there be?
So why mention the Falklands at all? To scare people. What other reason could there be?
It also has to be asked: who will invade?
Spain are partners in NATO and probably don't want kicking out. Nor do I expect they want suspending from the eu and facing the wrath of the un and international community. As far as I'm aware nobody else cares about the rock, certainly nobody that isn't an ally or could be invaded a hundred times over by us and our allies
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