IN/OUT: Enoch Powell, John Redwood, Michael Forsyth, Michael Gove, Jacob Rees Mogg

There is a certain type of Tory, that is NATIONALIST, HONEST, and tries to fight for the British Working class person. Nationalist Toffs...

I would suggest that although they see the economic benefits of out for working people in the UK they are not looking at the moral/ethical dimension....

Its not what is good for the UK that is the only guide, what should be the main guide is what is the most NET good for the MOST people.

Thus if us being in the EU helps Poland more than it hurts us, we should stay because staying does the most NET good.

When you die, you as a person, I guess would like to have done more NET good than net bad.

I would suggest, being in the EU is a NET good thing.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 1

Davij038

Wrong.

They're communitarian and thus see the ethical good being confined within a nation state with the possible exception of charity.

Reply 2

FredOrJohn

Original post by Davij038

Wrong.

They're communitarian and thus see the ethical good being confined within a nation state with the possible exception of charity.

There is no "nationality" in death. There is only the NET good or bad. We are talking "on your grave stone".

I should also add Tony Benn to the list (posh boy who became a Nationalist "worker" )

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 3

Davij038

Original post by FredOrJohn

There is no "nationality" in death. There is only the NET good or bad. We are talking "on your grave stone".

I should also add Tony Benn to the list (posh boy who became a Nationalist "worker" )

That sounds like utilitarianism which is anathemas to Tories. As long as Britons survive ultimately they don't care. Queen Elizabeth the first apparently asked an advisor about the state of Europe, and he responded 300'000 dead, and not a single English man.

Google IR Realism, They don't give a ****, National Interest above all

Reply 4

Rakas21

Not sure Gove can be deemed a toff. He's middle class and even has a mortgage on his property.

I see Brexit causing net gain for the nation however your inference is that it causes net good across the EU which it probably does. The difference here is that i don't think we have a responsibility to poor nations, my political responsibility (who i bear in mind) only extends to the UK.

That being said, the EU will do just fine without us. Those who think it will collapse don't understand the mentality of Eastern Europe especially.

Reply 5

Davij038

Original post by Rakas21

On a slightly different topic,

remind me again how we should tackle global overpopulation in a world where all states pursue the national interest above all other considerations?

Reply 6

Rakas21

Original post by Davij038

On a slightly different topic,

remind me again how we should tackle global overpopulation in a world where all states pursue the national interest above all other considerations?

Global overpopulation does not exist, the global fertility rate is 2.6 and declining meaning that output of food, energy ect.. rises faster than the global population.

1) We do have a regional overpopulation problem though.(Africa and parts of South Asia) of which there are two solutions. Decrease the fertility rate or spread the population (horrid idea endorsed by Merkel as it has no respect for ethno-cultural boundaries).

2) Improve the distribution of capital and food ect.. Essentially create a more equal world to prevent them starving and the like

3) Leave them to it. Hem them in.

Reply 7

Davij038

Original post by Rakas21

1) We do have a regional overpopulation problem though.(Africa and parts of South Asia) of which there are two solutions. Decrease the fertility rate or spread the population (horrid idea endorsed by Merkel as it has no respect for ethno-cultural boundaries).

How can we get states to decrease their fertility rate, when you consider cultural issues regarding contraception and that its in the national interest to have a high population?

2) Improve the distribution of capital and food ect.. Essentially create a more equal world to prevent them starving and the like

3) Leave them to it. Hem them in.

2 isn't happening and 3 isn't working. The only thing I can think of is collective incentivisation.

Reply 8

FredOrJohn

Original post by Rakas21

Not sure Gove can be deemed a toff. He's middle class and even has a mortgage on his property.

Yeah but you know what I mean they sound like intellectual nationalist lawyers.
What would that be called "a gaggle of lawyers"?

Reply 9

Rakas21

Original post by Davij038

How can we get states to decrease their fertility rate, when you consider cultural issues regarding contraception and that its in the national interest to have a high population?

2 isn't happening and 3 isn't working. The only thing I can think of is collective incentivisation.

Without action that could be deemed aggressive, i'm not sure.

Well 3 is not in effect, we're allowing them to pollute the rest of the world and imperialistic hemming in is not the flavour at the moment.