How the left respond to the recent attack in Orlando now we know the perp was Muslim?

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Of course I ignored it.

You proved my point.

You think this criticism is "unfair" - like that matters.

And you admit the ideology is extreme and even give a reason why.

Nothing left to argue about.

Criticising a religion is not the same as going around purporting false information about it.

Reply 121

ChaoticButterfly

Original post by generallee

Owen Jones made a fool of himself in that video.

He may also be beginning to regret his sucking up to radical Islam, along with the whole of the regressive left.

The Islamists ally with people like him, use him for political gain, for Taqiya. But at the extreme end they want to kill him, and at the moderate end they want make practising his sexuality against the law.. Islam is homophobic. What part of that don't the left get??

People like Jones will be arguing about LGBT rights and how Islamophobia is the greatest danger when the terrorists storm through his door with Kalashnikovs.

The left are so blind to the danger of Islamism it is terrifying.

How is Peter Tatchell the regressive left? He has been outspoken against homophobia committed by Muslims and the crimes of ISIS.

Reply 122

KingBradly

Original post by ChaoticButterfly

Some perspective.

Muslims are only 0.9% of the population.

Reply 123

KingBradly

Original post by ZeroFree

A lot of the responses that I've seen to this has been pretty reasonable thus far. Most of it has been about a need for stricter gun control and eliminating homophobia.

What do you think the 'correct' response to this should be?

The left should treat Islam with the same disdain as they would with any other ultraconservative ideology.

Reply 124

inhuman

Original post by nexttimeigetvpn

Criticising a religion is not the same as going around purporting false information about it.

What is not true?

Reply 125

inhuman

Original post by ChaoticButterfly

That's irrelevant unless you are in the business of thought crime and clamping on down freedom of speech, assembly and a load of other freedoms we enjoy in liberal democracies.

You can find lots of advocacy for violence in the Bible. Old and New Testament. That doesn't mean we outlaw Christianity. You get some pretty liberal Christians despite what is in their holy book.

As long as the Muslims are law abiding it doesn't matter what their holy book says. It;s basically what Viddy has been saying. I'm a secular humanist and can find all kind of things to severely dislike about organised religion and their holy books. But I'm a liberal.

And "liberals" like you are the reason terms like "regressive left" exist.

Karl Popper:

We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. We should claim that any movement preaching intolerance places itself outside the law, and we should consider incitement to intolerance and persecution as criminal, in the same way as we should consider incitement to

Reply 126

ChaoticButterfly

Original post by inhuman

And "liberals" like you are the reason terms like "regressive left" exist.

You can be right wing and a liberal.

How is wanting to attack the liberties intrinsic to western democracies not regressive?

Regressive left is normally used to describe left wingers who, in the name of attacking some notion of western supremacy, end up supporting groups like Hamas that stand for ideals that are totally in objection to standard left wing ideals. I didn't do that.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 127

inhuman

Original post by ChaoticButterfly

Didn't say you did.

Just that that term is thrown around so much it makes it hard to have a proper debate. So it's not really used in the strict manner you have defined it here.

How about a Muslim splinter group? A gay Iman comes out and creates his own school of thought. Where you are still Muslim, but you have liberties, such as women can come to Mosques without a headscarf if they so wish, can pray with men, where people can be openly gay? Where he acknowledges that there are verses in the Koran that promote discrimination and violence but that he is against those and those Muslims that stand for that.

But no, what happens instead is that Turkey sends hundreds of Imams to Germany to preach the Islam that is practiced in Turkey, an Islam that directly opposes the values that Germany stands for.

**** like that happens instead of what I theorized.

Reply 128

hovado

Urgh, just whats needed now more partisan ********.

Reply 129

BaconandSauce

Original post by inhuman

How about a Muslim splinter group? A gay Iman comes out and creates his own school of thought. Where you are still Muslim, but you have liberties, such as women can come to Mosques without a headscarf if they so wish, can pray with men, where people can be openly gay? Where he acknowledges that there are verses in the Koran that promote discrimination and violence but that he is against those and those Muslims that stand for that.

This has happened

I posted about this in religion and how it shows there is hope

Sadly only a few Muslims decided to contribute and it was mostly negative and in once case downright threatening

Reply 130

Chakede

Original post by Delilah234

Great post! I think it hits the nail on the head. People need to realise that it's a hate crime, first and foremost.

take the heat of the islamists you mean?
regardless - most of islamists attacks are driven by their incorporated hatred anyway

Reply 131

Delilah234

Original post by Chakede

take the heat of the islamists you mean?
regardless - most of islamists attacks are driven by their incorporated hatred anyway

Okay, thanks for your input.

Reply 132

inhuman

Original post by BaconandSauce

This has happened

I posted about this in religion and how it shows there is hope

Sadly only a few Muslims decided to contribute and it was mostly negative and in once case downright threatening

So where are all the liberal, moderate Muslims?

All come here to protest their innocence but no one does anything and if someone does they are against it. Go figure.

Reply 133

BaconandSauce

Original post by inhuman

So where are all the liberal, moderate Muslims?

All come here to protest their innocence but no one does anything and if someone does they are against it. Go figure.

Only one came to the thread

which was rather sad given it was to be used as an example of a positive change within Islam

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=4139649

the most worrying post was this

Original post by HAnwar

Totally contradicts Islamic teachings so obviously it's not.

But this is just one of the threats that needs to be stopped.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 134

inhuman

Original post by BaconandSauce

Yea that HAnwar guy is (insert comment that will have the Muslim-loving Mods drooling with bans).

im sorry im a bit tipsy.

fhjyerjyjr:2euk48l:

Reply 137

username1969391

Original post by RattyVlogger

So why should we pin the blame of a mentally disturbed individual on 1.6 billion people or their religion? Are you absurd?

When did I say that?

Reply 138

vickidc18

There's a problem with Islam no other religion seems to be so strict, and have an all encompassing hold over every aspect of a persons life, the difference is identity if you ask someone who they are they generally say British, A Labour supporter, A tory supporter, religion tends to come far down in the case of list if you ask an Islam follower they tend to say Muslim first that is their identity. Thats a big problem with integration with different faiths and to deny it would be silly.

Reply 139

garfeeled

Original post by Axel Johann

We would say exactly the same thing, you can't generalise a group of people based on the actions of a few.

How does that not get to your brain?

--
Edit :- it looks like you changed your OP to:

lol

But you know w simple look into the social attitudes of Muslims makes it clear there is a problem and that said problem almost certainly played some part in this atrocity.