Latest You Gov poll shows 7% majority for Leave

OK i'm confused now!

I said that we'd be weaker short-term - almost everyone agrees.

You said that we'd be stronger (presumably long-term).
Some say we'd be weaker long-term, and these are generally credible institutions.
Can't see many credible institutions saying we're better off long-term outside the EU.
I'd say the future is anyone's guess.

Net result = Short-term pain, unclear if there is any long-term gain. If EU breaks up thereafter, can be sure of longer-term feedback loop pain.


So again, I see zero compelling reason to leave from an economic standpoint, given the limited future certainty. Again, I'd also much rather leave in the future, it it became obvious we needed to, from a point of economic stability and sound finances, not whilst most European economies are teetering on the edge of the Grand Canyon!

OK i'm confused now!

I said that we'd be weaker short-term - almost everyone agrees.

You said that we'd be stronger (presumably long-term).
Some say we'd be weaker long-term, and these are generally credible institutions.
Can't see many credible institutions saying we're better off long-term outside the EU.
I'd say the future is anyone's guess.

Net result = Short-term pain, unclear if there is any long-term gain. If EU breaks up thereafter, can be sure of longer-term feedback loop pain.

So again, I see zero compelling reason to leave from an economic standpoint, given the limited future certainty. Again, I'd also much rather leave in the future, it it became obvious we needed to, from a point of economic stability and sound finances, not whilst most European economies are teetering on the edge of the Grand Canyon!

How so?

Please substantiate your points.

It also begs the question:


Are students out of touch with UK society? Given the gulf in voting intentions between students and the rest of the population.

SS

Ever wondered why we have an unaffordable triple lock on old age pensions and yet some of the highest fees for students in the world?

Yes, all these unthinkingly pro EU, pro unlimited immigration students are laughably out of touch with UK society. But it doesn't matter because most are too stupid to vote.

Ever wondered why we have an unaffordable triple lock on old age pensions and yet some of the highest fees for students in the world?

When you say "let the multinationals fend for themselves", you mean you will be happy to see about 2m jobs walk out of the country as the major car manufacturers relocate?

Do you think BMW, Nissan, Toyota, etc, etc are going to stay here if the UK leaves?

Many car companies said the same thing in 2002 regarding the UK & the Euro. Needless to say, they're still here.

The set-up cost of building a new factory isn't exactly cheap - I can't find any figures for how much the Toyota factory in Derbyshire cost but it took threes before a car rolled off the production line. Unless the UK literally has no trade deal with the EU whatsoever I highly doubt the car manufacturers will close up & move on.

Of course it wouldn't happen in a week. It's about the direction of policy. Where will they be in five years time when they next review their major locations?

As with everything, the religious faith of the leavers that everything will somehow, by some magical process, be better after departure, trumps any analysis of actual economic reality.

We did OK governing ourselves in the thousand years between 1066

I'm confused as to why each of those things are relevant to each other? Do you propose we make university 'free' and have an even more unaffordable situation??

Also, considering the extremely high quality of our education, we would expect it to have some of the highest fees in the world. Compared to other countries of similar quality its actually good value:

http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/the-countries-with-the-most-expensive-tuition-fees--WJ0S5a4BQg

I was talking about the difference in political power exerted by students and OAP's.

Old people believe it is important to vote, do so in very high numbers and form a very formidable lobby group for their interests.

The old age pension has been unfairly (in my view) protected because of the fear of their ability to influence elections. No government dare mess with them. Even though, arguably, it is in the national interest that there be pension reform.

I was not arguing the pros and cons of student tuition fees, but just observing that students have been ignored as a political lobby by both parties on the issue at various times. Because they vote in much smaller numbers.

Of course it wouldn't happen in a week. It's about the direction of policy. Where will they be in five years time when they next review their major locations?

As with everything, the religious faith of the leavers that everything will somehow, by some magical process, be better after departure, trumps any analysis of actual economic reality.

Silly, fairly obvious question, from myself - will there be an exit poll after the vote takes place like with the General Election? 'Cause if so, I think that's the only poll I'm going to be even seriously considering.

We got absolutely shredded by invading French people in 1066...

The economic reality is that they are unlikely to move their HQ because it still wouldn't be cost effective...

Yes we did!

I said there were ups and downs.

Actually the history of the post Norman Conquest is another very good argument for leave.

Because of it successive English Kings got caught in a sort of early European Union, with lands all over France. It caused all sorts of rivalries and problems.

We didn't see the end of centuries of warfare until we finally lost all those possessions in continental Europe.

The voice of faith.

The big car manufacturers came to the UK to set up their major plants precisely because Britain is in the EU.

Answers on a postcard as to why they won't decide to leave when we do.

I think it's quite right that OAPs pensions can be protected, it's not like elderly people can just go back to work and earn more money to avoid fuel poverty if their pension gets cut.

Likewise if young people can't be bothered to vote/not interested then it's their fault that their views are not implemented.