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Latest You Gov poll shows 7% majority for Leave

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Original post by zayn008
I highly doubt Murdoch would support brexit as the final outcome, it wouldn't have a positive effect on his business and rich buddies


You think?

Spoiler

(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Fullofsurprises
I recall you saying that's what I said. I don't recall actually saying it, or anything close to it.


Your main arguments on that thread were that Brexit isn't going to happen because it's only supported by Essex and Norfolk, which themselves are insignificant regions due to being rural, and that they are only voting Brexit because they are racists, reactionaries, bigots and Little Englanders. On top of that, you also kept harping on about how well-educated the areas of the country polling to vote 'remain' are.

So really my description was quite apt.
Original post by elen90
The British people are not educated enough to make such a complex decision. Call me derisive and a snob, but it's simply the truth.


You're right. I wish we were all as wise as you.
Original post by jneill
You think?



PSA: if Murdoch and The Sun say do one thing, do the exact opposite.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
I apologise on the Nissan thing, I meant to say Nissan and Toyota. According to Wikipedia though, Nissan has 6,800 employees in the UK alone.

No chairman of any FTSE 100 company has come out in favour of Leave.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35901811

Some other big company chairman and directors and ex-directors have come out - these are mainly from 'fringe' companies like gambling companies, pub chains and mobile phone ripoff retailers - all Tory supporters as well.

The clever, clever trick that the Leavers are perpetrating is taking an in-house Tory feud / cause and making it sound like something that ordinary people should care about.


FTSE chairmen: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/06/13/one-in-five-ftse-100-chairmen-backs-brexit-poll-says/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Motor_Manufacturing_UK
Says 4,500 employees directly employed
Original post by Axion
Edited my reply a bit late. 5.3% in one week, and no tangible signs of it slowing.

The tangible sign is that almost all draw downs of this scale end shortly. If we had seen a month of 5% weekly draw downs, then that would be something special. But I'm not sure even the most frothing-at-the-mouth Remainian seriously expects Brexit to reduce the size of the UK economy by 20%, which is more than the Great Depression or the Second World War.

And remember this 5.3% decline already is with the Remain bookies odds still at 60%... Could get worse.

With the assumption that it is caused by increased chances of Brexit, which is itself little more than speculation based on timing. Plenty of draw downs of this size have occurred that have no clear cause.

If it reaches 10% does that make it enough of an exceptional event? At this rate it is certainly heading there.

If the FTSE 100 dropped 10-20% and other markets did not and there was no other obvious cause, then it would be an exceptional event that could be reasonably connected to Brexit. But that is not what we are seeing.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Most smaller businesses are not affected by most EU regulation, as they are exempt from a lot of it. The larger businesses that are affected are all strongly pro-EU almost without exception, which should tell you something.

When you say "let the multinationals fend for themselves", you mean you will be happy to see about 2m jobs walk out of the country as the major car manufacturers relocate?

Do you think BMW, Nissan, Toyota, etc, etc are going to stay here if the UK leaves?


Hi there,

The FTSE 100 companies are (obviously) the largest 100 companies in the UK which means they've benefited greatly from the status quo without suffering many of its drawbacks. Of course they will vote for the status quo. They've thrived on the status quo which is the reason they're in the FTSE 100, many more companies haven't thrived.

What is best for the 100 biggest companies in the UK is not always what's best for the rest of the UK, nor the rest of our companies.

Also, the FTSE dropping doesn't mean that a Brexit will be bad economically...it just means investors don't like uncertainty, which is fair enough.


I think it's unlikely BMW, Nissan & Toyota will leave even if we leave the EU. As it's unlikely that Germany/France will impose large tariffs on our trading as it would hurt their economies more than ours (due to the trade deficit). Even if the pound slides, it's still pretty good for exports.

These companies are in the UK not just because we're in the EU. We're the 2nd largest economy in the EU and a fantastic place to do business.


SS
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by NickLCFC
You're right. I wish we were all as wise as you.


I don't claim to have expert knowledge on the matter and I include myself in that statement. We should not be able to choose this. We elect the people, with - I hope - the necessary information at-hand to make such decisions.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
According to Wikipedia though, Nissan has 6,800 employees in the UK alone.


A whopping 0.02% of the UK labour force.

What are the shipping costs for tens of thousands of tons of industrial machinery like these days?
Original post by pol pot noodles
Your main arguments on that thread were that Brexit isn't going to happen because it's only supported by Essex and Norfolk, which themselves are insignificant regions due to being rural, and that they are only voting Brexit because they are racists, reactionaries, bigots and Little Englanders. On top of that, you also kept harping on about how well-educated the areas of the country polling to vote 'remain' are.

So really my description was quite apt.


I think what I actually said was that survey data shows that racist attitudes are found in the highest concentrations in E. Anglia and some other middle class white rural areas (fact) and that those are also highly associated with UKIP voting (fact).

I don't know why the Right try to hide their racism when they parade it so much, it's crushingly obvious that the immigration debate is a mere dog whistle appeal to racist voters. That's why Farage's supporters hurled abuse at a black woman for daring to ask him what difference to black people in Britain is made by the racist atmosphere created by his constant banging on about immigration.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/14/brexit-farage-racist-backlash-immigration-eu-debate-racism-threat-minorities
Original post by jneill
You think?

Spoiler



You do realise that these are EDITORIAL decisions, the editors determine the agenda, the owner rakes in the money.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
I think what I actually said was that survey data shows that racist attitudes are found in the highest concentrations in E. Anglia and some other middle class white rural areas (fact) and that those are also highly associated with UKIP voting (fact).

I don't know why the Right try to hide their racism when they parade it so much, it's crushingly obvious that the immigration debate is a mere dog whistle appeal to racist voters. That's why Farage's supporters hurled abuse at a black woman for daring to ask him what difference to black people in Britain is made by the racist atmosphere created by his constant banging on about immigration.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/14/brexit-farage-racist-backlash-immigration-eu-debate-racism-threat-minorities


racism: one of the most over used words there is and means "you don't have a leftie liberal outlook on people who aren't part of the club and whether or not you do I think you hate everybody that isn't a middle class white Englishman"
Original post by Observatory
A whopping 0.02% of the UK labour force.

What are the shipping costs for tens of thousands of tons of industrial machinery like these days?


Nissan is just one of many big exporting manufacturers that located large plants here because we are in the EU. They also support a big tail of downstream supplier businesses.

What is noteworthy for Leavers is the total lack of thought about what really matters here - it clearly doesn't matter that we will lose potentially up to 2 million manufacturing jobs, what is that compared to the burning need to exclude some Poles?
Original post by Fullofsurprises
I think what I actually said was that survey data shows that racist attitudes are found in the highest concentrations in E. Anglia and some other middle class white rural areas (fact) and that those are also highly associated with UKIP voting (fact).

I don't know why the Right try to hide their racism when they parade it so much, it's crushingly obvious that the immigration debate is a mere dog whistle appeal to racist voters. That's why Farage's supporters hurled abuse at a black woman for daring to ask him what difference to black people in Britain is made by the racist atmosphere created by his constant banging on about immigration.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/14/brexit-farage-racist-backlash-immigration-eu-debate-racism-threat-minorities


That article was written by the black woman lol. I scroll down to comments and most recommended said how she was aggressive towards him. I think there is a high chance that she is a plant especially considering she is a columnist for the Huffington post.
I seem to remember the FTSE 100 sliding when it seemed like Labour were going to form a government in the last election as the polls indicated. I also remember the IMF coming out in favour of the Conservative's fiscal plans.

Did that stop you voting labour? Of course not! You only care what these institutions think when they're on your side.


@Fullofsurprises
Original post by Sun_Bear
I think you have your figures wrong. Boeing does indeed have 1,500 but Nissan UK actually has 4,500. Regardless, Boeing just makes it's aeroplane wings here and other parts all over Europe. If they are not too concerned then i fail to see how the impact would be so negative for other manufacturing companies. .


Boeing manufactures throughout Europe and it's main construction plants are in the United States. Brexit isn't going make a difference to it.

If Nissan manufacture their cars within the UK then Brexit will make a difference if they are subject to tariffs in the absence of an agreement.
Original post by Sun_Bear
That article was written by the black woman lol. I scroll down to comments and most recommended said how she was aggressive towards him. I think there is a high chance that she is a plant especially considering she is a columnist for the Huffington post.


Oh here we go. Anyone who dares to challenge Farage's huffle puffle nonentity drivel is a 'plant'.
Original post by Jammy Duel
You do realise that these are EDITORIAL decisions, the editors determine the agenda, the owner rakes in the money.


Editors that act contrary to Murdoch don't last very long.

And "In evidence to a House of Lords select committee in 2007, Murdoch even said that he acted like "a traditional proprietor" in regard to the Sun and the News of the World by "exercising control on major issues, such as which party to back in a general election or policy on Europe.""
Original post by DorianGrayism
Boeing manufactures throughout Europe and it's main construction plants are in the United States. Brexit isn't going make a difference to it.

If Nissan manufacture their cars within the UK then Brexit will make a difference if they are subject to tariffs in the absence of an agreement.


Look, i'm not a Boeing expert and won't claim to be one. All i know i that in an interview with Andrew Neil, George Osborne used Boeing as an example of a company which will leave the UK in result of a Brexit. Boeing have since said they are remaining in UK regardless of outcome so i am very sceptical...
Original post by Jammy Duel
racism: one of the most over used words there is and means "you don't have a leftie liberal outlook on people who aren't part of the club and whether or not you do I think you hate everybody that isn't a middle class white Englishman"


Complaints about the word racism: one of the most overdone complaints there is.

A complaint about being silenced by the word, in order to ironically silence 'leftie liberals' who justifiably use it, so that the bigoted can continue to perpetuate their racist ideals and rationalise them by saying 'I refuse to adhere to this political correctness gone mad'.

The words liberalism and socialism are becoming stigmatised more than racist agendas are.

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