Latest You Gov poll shows 7% majority for Leave

That is just a reaction almost as a deterrent. The EU countries will not want to lose trade from us as they export our superior finance and insurance services and we import their goods ie food and manufactured products. We will most likely enter a free trade agreement losing little to no trade with them, whilst benefitting from less immigration and having to inject nothing into the EU budget. The only real issue is a potential brain drain as EU foreigners will now need VISAs. But if you take Australia as the example a lot of people still go there to live and work despite that

Ok. Thanks.But they would have several years after Brexit in all likelihood to come up with the more important agreements and while I'm a wavering leave supporter (never thought I'd say that) and looking for reasons to vote remain ,I don't think that's enough.

That is just a reaction almost as a deterrent. The EU countries will not want to lose trade from us as they export our superior finance and insurance services and we import their goods ie food and manufactured products. We will most likely enter a free trade agreement losing little to no trade with them, whilst benefitting from less immigration and having to inject nothing into the EU budget. The only real issue is a potential brain drain as EU foreigners will now need VISAs. But if you take Australia as the example a lot of people still go there to live and work despite that

Trust me, as a holder of a first class degree from a top 10 uni but no job, there is no "brain drain". We are as smart as anyone. We are however unskilled, as the government is not training enough people in what is needed (ie. nurses, programmers) preferring to import talent. Not a brain drain, but a skill drain, and a skill drain will be good as it will force the government to train our population in skills, decreasing unemployment.

How people can say we need foreigners for their skills is beyond me. We just need to train the 1.7M unemployed in our own country in applicable skills. So, we have no nurses, we need 20k more, ok, pick 20k of the 1.7M(!!) without a job and frickin train them to be nurses. You improve 2 problems. I don't understand how this is so hard to grasp :,)

Trust me, as a holder of a first class degree from a top 10 uni but no job, there is no "brain drain". We are as smart as anyone. We are however unskilled, as the government is not training enough people in what is needed (ie. nurses, programmers) preferring to import talent. Not a brain drain, but a skill drain, and a skill drain will be good as it will force the government to train our population in skills, decreasing unemployment.

How people can say we need foreigners for their skills is beyond me. We just need to train the 1.7M unemployed in our own country in applicable skills. So, we have no nurses, we need 20k more, ok, pick 20k of the 1.7M(!!) without a job and frickin train them to be nurses. You improve 2 problems. I don't understand how this is so hard to grasp :,)

Er no its not. Short-term even the leave campaign agree that there is a negative hit, and that's even to some extent quantifiable.

I say that long-term, it could be postiive, it could be negative, but that's a completely unknown factor.

So short-term negative, long-term uncertain. That sounds pretty uncompelling for the leave campaign. Sorry, the burden is on the leave campaign to reason your statements. Else it's another in a long list of waffle statements:

We're the 5th largest economy....
They can't afford to not trade with us....

Like the other waffle statement about how the illusory £350m in savings can be diverted into all of:

Fuel VAT cuts
Reductions in Income Tax Rates
More funding for the NHS
Today - protecting University Grants and more school places
plus about 5 other commitments.

Of course, none or little of that would actually happen in the case of a Brexit, but it's the sort of meaningless waffle rubbish that is spouted to win over voters.

I feel like us OUT voters have a perfect counter argument for every in voter's point, but they just seem to change the subject when we pose a point. If we leave, we will finally be able to train those people by using the freed up money that we used to pour into the eu budget

On the immigration point.

I think most leave campaigners would say that ~180k is still too much migration. That is what we currently allow in from outside the EU and would include a complete block on any net migration from the EU (which is obviously not a tenable assumption).

So I guess a valid question is; why if immigration is such a big issue, are we not capable of controlling the large numbers of immigrants from outside the EU?

The difference is that the people from outside of the EU have to pay to be here and are more likely to inject into the economy or give the government tax revenue. Whereas the EU immigrants can freely move here and drain the economy. I have no issue with a sustainable level of immigration of the right kind of people, those being workers or learners.

TBH i'd be much happier if you come to your own decision . pretty sure that no single person has all the answers to every point, and I certainly don't. I guess a question for you would be what benefits as a person on the street, get from leaving the EU? Is your viewpoint about wanting to reduce net migration, or another issue?

Ha,as far as making my own decision is concerned you mentioned catastrophic consequences and so I thought I should establish what you meant by that.
I wasn't asking you to give me all the answers But I didn't want to one day look back and realise my ignorance or selfishness had helped bring about a catastrophe


Regarding the (rhetorical)questions that's what's so bloody hard for someone like me.(Well and others I presume)

I LOVE Poles and I don't mind immigration. However I have come to realise how utterly unfair the wide scale immigration has been to the poorest people in our society.

But then again why should I care more about the poorest in Britain than poor hard working people who come here to work and send money back to their families.

And that's just immigration. I don't think that I can bring myself to vote out even though I hate the EU.

Anyway sorry to go on and thanks again.

Alex, I suggest you read the consensus empirical evidence for EU immigrants and their impact on the economy.

Trust me, as a holder of a first class degree from a top 10 uni but no job, there is no "brain drain". We are as smart as anyone. We are however unskilled, as the government is not training enough people in what is needed (ie. nurses, programmers) preferring to import talent. Not a brain drain, but a skill drain, and a skill drain will be good as it will force the government to train our population in skills, decreasing unemployment.

How people can say we need foreigners for their skills is beyond me. We just need to train the 1.7M unemployed in our own country in applicable skills. So, we have no nurses, we need 20k more, ok, pick 20k of the 1.7M(!!) without a job and frickin train them to be nurses. You improve 2 problems. I don't understand how this is so hard to grasp :,)

Trust me, as a holder of a first class degree from a top 10 uni but no job, there is no "brain drain". We are as smart as anyone. We are however unskilled, as the government is not training enough people in what is needed (ie. nurses, programmers) preferring to import talent. Not a brain drain, but a skill drain, and a skill drain will be good as it will force the government to train our population in skills, decreasing unemployment.

How people can say we need foreigners for their skills is beyond me. We just need to train the 1.7M unemployed in our own country in applicable skills. So, we have no nurses, we need 20k more, ok, pick 20k of the 1.7M(!!) without a job and frickin train them to be nurses. You improve 2 problems. I don't understand how this is so hard to grasp :,)

You decided to ignore the other 75% of my comment which was questioning the relevance of your graph and comments, and instead harped on the 25% which you could reply with "so what", which is exactly what I was saying about your point. Are you a politician by any chance?And sending me a big poster of simply a person stood on a diving board on a page of black reading "leap into the dark", ISN'T fear tactics I suppose?

Its simply logic, uncontrolled immigration is unsustainable, fill a glass of water, then keep the tap running and see what happens. In the EU, we cannot control immigration, therefore it is uncontrollable, therefore we are susceptible to a sudden influx caused by any number of natural or human caused factors, look back at you glass.

Personally, immigration isn't my chief concern anyway, just responding to your immigration "facts" which are irrelevant and bias.

Yeah, so in the real world you cannot just do an "eeny meeny miny moe" on the unemployment list and then sign them up for a nursing degree!

There is a shortage of British people wanting to do a nursing degree ( why that is, is a topic for another thread!) and who are the ones wanting to be nurses in the NHS? Migrants. So to say that we are gonna force train 20k people to be nurses, as a substitute for migrants who actually want to care for people in our NHS, is a joke!

Mentioning that you have a first class degree doesn't add to your point, unless you state what degree you have. Obviously a degree in dance would limit your choices etc.
Plus the government does technically train us. It gives us loans to go to uni to get trained, and they give you a choice of what you want to learn to do. They cant be faulted because people either dont want to go to uni to train as nurses, or because people want to study History etc. instead of Nursing. The government gives everyone opportunities to train, but people squander those opportunities.
Also out of those 1.7 million, how many of them are smart enough or capable enough to be a nurse? And how many of those people WANT to nurses?