Decided to leave Islam after Orlando attack. AMA.

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Reply 80

Kajsajbas

Original post by Jayce.x

Taking a life of one human regardless of their religion is as if killing the entire humankind. It's in the Qur'an.

We ordained for them a life for a life.
+ shariah law, based on the quaran

Reply 81

Anonymous #5

Original post by shivam_chauhan

This is why there are so many extremists in the world :frown:

No one is out to get you - it is the way the people in the religion act and behave

I am the people in my religion. My friends are the people in my religion. My family are the people in my religion. I know exactly how we act and behave, it's just a shame the rest of the world can't see that.

As for 'so many extremists in the world' - why don't you try walking a mile in the shoes of somebody whose entire belief system and way of living is routinely mocked, ridiculed, and belittled. A person who's spat at in the street, and who's met with hate everywhere they turn. A person whose family is murdered in front of their very own eyes before their home is destroyed. And then tell me why you think there are 'so many extremists in the world'.

Reply 82

Anonymous #5

Original post by BenC1997

Muslims are not oppressed, that is just laughable.

Of course you'd find it laughable. Ignorance is bliss, after all.

“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”

Malcolm X

Reply 83

Jayce.x

Original post by Kajsajbas

We ordained for them a life for a life.
+ shariah law, based on the quaran

https://versebyversequranstudycircle.wordpress.com/2013/02/28/tafseer-surah-al-maidah-ayah-45/

Reply 84

Anonymous #7

It is completely up to you what you choose to do in terms of your religion. But personally, I don't believe that this atrocity was primarily due to his faith, I think the US have put a lot of emphasis on that in the press, rather that the fact that it was a hate crime against the gay community. Because he was a muslim, they immediately made it about his religion, rather than his prejudices against gay people. It's because the US press really wanted to make the crime support their 'war on terror' as much as possible, to gain support.

Reply 85

BenC1997

Original post by Anonymous

I don't 'hate' Muslims, I just do not agree that they are oppressed. How exactly are Muslims oppressed? It seems you are the ignorant one, I'm not sure you understand oppression.

Also, just quoting someone doesn't give your argument any validity - you've just found a random quote that mildly correlates with your argument.

You have a victim complex I'm afraid, 50 people are shot dead, and Muslims are the 'real' victims, the 'oppressed' people.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 86

WarmEye

Seeing these privileged 1st world Muslims claiming homosexuality isn't punishable by Islam is laughable. It must be good to claim Islam isn't against basic human rights and pretty much turn a blind eye against those who have been punished and even hanged under Islamic law in Islamic countries just for being gay.

Next thing you know you'll hear Muslims claim Islam led the fight for women's rights lol.

Reply 87

oShahpo

Original post by TrojanH

wasnt the killer gay himself lol

werent the killings due to his hatred of self?... he was found to have multiple homosexual relationships, an avid drinker, have multiple gay dating apps, he murdered those people in the night club as he was a regular there and loather the happiness of others.

if you leave islam, you leave it because of a decision made by yourself, uninfluenced by another persons actions, that's just pathetic

Maybe, just maybe, if there is such a plethora of Islamic terrorists groups who specifically target homosexuals, maybe, just a little maybe, they're actually motivated by Islam. And if they are, I don't understand why you'd want to associate yourself with such a hate motivating religion.

To OP, you have made a wise decision, albeit a bit late. But yea, you don't need to dig deep into the Quran to find what actually is motivating those terrorists. Good on you and welcome to the ship of Ex-Muslims, it will be a hard ride.

Reply 88

Sara_t

Original post by BenC1997

Muslims are not oppressed, that is just laughable.

What's actually laughable is that this comment is coming from someone who most probably isn't Muslim and hasn't experienced all the negative stereotypes many of us have gone through. Yes, very obvious, physical opression may not happen very often , but the number of times i've been asked if i'm forced to cover, or if i'll be getting an 'arranged marriage' or be treated differently because of how I dress or what I believe in, or get stopped at airports. I could really go on. You can't deny that alot of people have very negative impressions of Islam, just bexause you haven't seen it happen, doesn't mean it isn't going on.

Reply 89

BenC1997

Original post by Sara_t

Whilst what you have experienced is regrettable, it is also nothing more than anecdotal evidence and thus should not be used in a debate such as this, it is not evidence of systematic oppression I'm afraid.

I will not deny many people have negative views of Islam, but I would argue that many of these views are entirely justified, if they come from a position of intellectual research as opposed to bias and prejudice.

Reply 90

oShahpo

Original post by Sara_t

As a Muslim who's studied my own faith in great detail, it makes me upset when people who don't know a great deal about it come to the conclusion that it's a religion filled with hate and opression. Couldn't be further from the truth. Don't read quotes out of context online, go direct to the source. Pick up a good translation of the quran and read it for yourself. If you can't be bothered there are plenty of videos on youtube of those who have properly studied their faith (e.g.nouman ali khan) explaining the ayah properly, rather than some anti Islam website pulling out random, out of context passages to justify their views. If after all of that, you still come to the same conclusion, then your choice.

If you have studied your religion "carefully" and came up with the conclusion it is peaceful and not filled with hate, then I don't what do you think does satisfy the criteria of "filled with hate".
There is no such thing as "out of context" when it comes to the word of God, which is supposed to be perfect, and as far as I know a perfect writer never writes in a way that allows his writings to be taken out of context to justify things like murder. A God that asks his prophet to kills the enemies of Allah, slaughter them, cut their arms and legs and enslave their women is not a peaceful God. If that doesn't fall under the criteria of hate in your book, then I don't know what is.

Reply 91

LittleBoxes

Original post by Anonymous

I've chosen to leave the Islamic faith following the attack on the gay club 4 days ago.

I've never heard a Muslim use the term Islamic faith.

Reply 92

Anonymous #8

Original post by Anonymous

I've chosen to leave the Islamic faith following the attack on the gay club 4 days ago.

Is it entirely based on the Orlando incident? If yes, i'd say that's pretty stupid

Reply 93

Anonymous #3

Original post by Anonymous

maybe because your routine of life is ridiculous :eek:

Reply 94

macsalaama

Original post by Cakey_101

No, not every Muslim. Unless you have a legitimate reason and have actually done your research then fair enough thats your decision, but to base it on the media is funny tbh, just goes to show the effects of the media right.

Original post by Jayce.x

Taking a life of one human regardless of their religion is as if killing the entire humankind. It's in the Qur'an.

Totally out of context and misquoted.

"Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors" (5:32)

"Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment, "(5:33)

http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=786&Itemid=60

More extreme translations and interpretations actually state verse 5:32 only applies to the killing of a believer.

Original post by Anonymous

It doesn't change the fact that Islam doesn't accept homosexuality and the punishment for "acting on homosexual urges" is death.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 95

Sara_t

Original post by oShahpo

In Islam, there very much is such thing as 'out of context'. Allah himself, in the Quran, says:
'And he misguides with it (the Quran) many and guides with it many' [surah Baqrah verse 27-28].
'And had your Lord willed, those on earth would have believed, all of them together. So will you (Muhammad) then, compel mankind? Until they become believers? [Yoonus 10:99]

In islam, seeking knowledge is compulsory for every human being. It's vital that to properly understand the text, you have studied the arabic language and the context in which the surahs were revealed.

Allah repeated makes it very clear throughout the quran that no one can be forced to become a Muslim or follow Islamic rules. Muhammad (pbuh) is reminded throughout that his role is only to spread the message. Not dictate how someone must live their life. That is upto the individual.
There is one passage that is used repeatedly by Islamophobes: 'and kill them where you find them...' out of context to justify their incorrect view that Islam belives anyone who isn't a believer must be killed (which in itself goes against the many ayahs in the quran that oppose this). I won't go into detail on the issues you mentioned because i'll end up writing an essay. But i'll leave a link that mentions some of the points I would've made

discover-the-truth.com/2014/08/12/quran-2191-and-kill-them-wherever-you-find-them-explained/

Reply 96

Elivercury

Out of curiosity what constitutes a "valid reason" for stopping being a muslim?

I'd have thought not believing would be enough. The rest of it is somewhat irrelevant in the grand scheme of things - either you believe in god (or Allah in this case) or you don't.

Reply 97

oShahpo

Original post by Sara_t

Allah saying there is no compulsion in Islam is like Hitler saying "Look, you don't have to be a Nazi, but if you don't give us money and do as we say we'll crucify you."

I know there is such a thing as context in Quran, but if Allah was the tiniest bit of intelligent, he would have been a bit more careful with the way he worded things. For example, he says to crucify those who wage war against God and "yas'oon fel ard fasadan",i.e. spread corruption in the land, which is SO VAGUE it encompass anyone, it could encompass people from American army soldiers to ISIS people. A smart God isn't supposed to be that vague, specially if he knows his Quran is supposed to be a book of law. Have a look at any decent constitution and compare it to the Quran, you'll see how vague the Quran is.

Look, I believe that the Quran isn't as violent as people generally believe it to be, it certainly does not say "Go and kill non-Muslims", but it's vague enough to be interpreted in such way by maniacs. The fact that "God" was not careful with his wording and did not foresee people misinterpreting his word, show's you how great he is really.

Plus, what kind of God asks his followers to crucify people?

Reply 98

Sara_t

Original post by macsalaama

He had doubts before and the attack confirmed his disbelief. That's more than enough.

Say, why are some muslims so adamant that ex-muslims have a "valid" reason for not believing?
Would you demand the same from new converts who know nothing but the 5 pillars?

Totally out of context and misquoted.

"Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors" (5:32)

"Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment, "(5:33)

http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=786&Itemid=60

More extreme translations and interpretations actually state verse 5:32 only applies to the killing of a believer.

It doesn't change the fact that Islam doesn't accept homosexuality and the punishment for "acting on homosexual urges" is death.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Perfect example of someone who hasn't studied Islam and the quran in depth and has most probably searched for these passages on google and has made up their mind based off of that. All of what you have quoted was revealed to the prophet at a particular point in time in regards to a particular situation that was going on. This is made more obvious the rest of the quran very much focuses on forgiveness and mercy. Not compulsion and hatred. Go and do a little more research next time instead of embarrassing yourself.

Reply 99

Anonymous #5

Original post by BenC1997

You have a victim complex I'm afraid, 50 people are shot dead, and Muslims are the 'real' victims, the 'oppressed' people.

49 people shot dead, and over 1 billion held accountable. Go figure.

Not a single person on this forum is deserving of the disrespect and hatred they've received following the attack in Orlando. Is it really fair that Muslims thousands of miles away, who are so far removed from the attack, are called in to question simply because the perpetrator claimed to be Muslim?

And for the record, the latter half of my original post was very generally speaking, and not about the event itself, but I wouldn't expect you to acknowledge the suffering of Muslims around the world when you can't even see it happening in front of you.