Hedge Fund Internships

generally hf's don't offer experience in the same capacity most graduate entry careers do, seemingly because you're expected to go in knowing your stuff.. i.e they expect employees generally to have completed formal training programmes at banks and recruit heavily from trading/research/m&a (merger arbs) - depending on their focus areas.

as prince formally mentioned there are indeed places you can look at, although if HF is your end goal, you may consider taking the more traditional route of IB > HF, as most friends who have managed to get HF internships managed to get in through the back door, if you will.

hope all goes well.

Reply 42

Original post by drogon

lmaoo im predicted 11A*s and im pretty sure i've got them. Three posts in and you're yet to share with us your achievements. Go on, tell us the lies.

GCSE: 11A*, 1A
AS:5As
A2: 4A*s
Currently doing Engineering at Girton College, Cambridge
Accepted UBS summer Analyst Internship

As I said, don't laugh too hard and wait till you actually get your GCSE grades. In the scheme of things I still have more to do, but from your position you can't tell me where I'll get. You won't know whats hit you until your in y13 doing A2s let alone applying for internships. I know many people who have got better GCSE grades (actual, not predicted) than me, but are now doing something like ComSci at Birmingham so keep grounded. I hate to talk to people your age like that, but to be fair you just jumped into an argument which you were not part of.

Reply 43

Original post by mahmoodjr

GCSE: 11A*, 1A
AS:5As
A2: 4A*s
Currently doing Engineering at Girton College, Cambridge
Accepted UBS summer Analyst Internship

As I said, don't laugh too hard and wait till you actually get your GCSE grades. In the scheme of things I still have more to do, but from your position you can't tell me where I'll get. You won't know whats hit you until your in y13 doing A2s let alone applying for internships. I know many people who have got better GCSE grades (actual, not predicted) than me, but are now doing something like ComSci at Birmingham so keep grounded. I hate to talk to people your age like that, but to be fair you just jumped into an argument which you were not part of.

Love how you didn't mention what division you'll be in. Ops, right?

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Reply 44

Original post by Princepieman

Love how you didn't mention what division you'll be in. Ops, right?

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I'll be in IBD, Equity Capital Markets.

But I don't see how you can make that remark about Ops: get into decent university course and then get a spring insight week before you you start questioning me. With your grades you have no chance of getting in.

Reply 45

Original post by mahmoodjr

I'll be in IBD, Equity Capital Markets.

But I don't see how you can make that remark about Ops: get into decent university course and then get a spring insight week before you you start questioning me. With your grades you have no chance of getting in.

Lol, did you actually read my profile or? I really don't need to take your advice bro.

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Reply 46

Original post by mahmoodjr

I'll be in IBD, Equity Capital Markets.

But I don't see how you can make that remark about Ops: get into decent university course and then get a spring insight week before you you start questioning me. With your grades you have no chance of getting in.

What I find particularly funny about this whole build up is that you came here just to brag, (to a GCSE kid no less) which is pretty low of you.

How about fixing up your attitude issue before hitting your desk, I'm sure the analysts on your team will appreciate you acting in this manner (read: they won't).

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Reply 47

Original post by Princepieman

Lol, did you actually read my profile or? I really don't need to take your advice bro.

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I did read your profile and you seem to explain your grades by saying your teachers had poorly managed your coursework, like all top students do.Only three of my mates got into GS, and they were super intelligent Economists and Mathematicians. I find it very hard to believe that you could be much better than the mathematician at my age which is why I highly doubt what you say. Hence why I asked how you know so much. You do not attend a good enough university course to know that caliber of people, nor have you worked at a quant or in IBD yet you make these remarks with such certainty.Some of the things I said are a little harsh, for which I apologise, but I still would be interested to see a reliable source which supports your statements about pay, environment (I couldn't find anything on Google)

Reply 48

Original post by mahmoodjr

I did read your profile and you seem to explain your grades by saying your teachers had poorly managed your coursework, like all top students do.Only three of my mates got into GS, and they were super intelligent Economists and Mathematicians. I find it very hard to believe that you could be much better than the mathematician at my age which is why I highly doubt what you say. Hence why I asked how you know so much. You do not attend a good enough university course to know that caliber of people, nor have you worked at a quant or in IBD yet you make these remarks with such certainty.Some of the things I said are a little harsh, for which I apologise, but I still would be interested to see a reliable source which supports your statements about pay, environment (I couldn't find anything on Google)

Oh yeah, because them submitting coursework a day after the official deadline (resulting in disqualification) is standard faire on my part - of course. Thanks for telling me about my life.

I know so much because I know a lot of people in finance and I've been helping people out on this site with finance careers for years now; doesn't take a sherlock to figure that one out. My finance network spans several hundred people that I speak to on a regular basis.

Right. So, let me get this straight.. You think any average joe blog mathematician can get into a quant hedge fund or prop house, and only the best get into GS' S&T program? Have you heard what the process is for the former? Do you know people who went through both (I do), and can compare? Did you know that the former has the highest concentration of IMO medalists out of any industry?

I wish I could give you a quick run down of my buddies' grad-entry pay packets, but that would have to be via PM not on an open forum. Alternatively, look at Glassdoor to get an idea because other than that, the only way you'll know is if you have friends within the industry.

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Reply 49

Original post by Princepieman

Oh yeah, because them submitting coursework a day after the official deadline (resulting in disqualification) is standard faire on my part - of course. Thanks for telling me about my life.

I know so much because I know a lot of people in finance and I've been helping people out on this site with finance careers for years now; doesn't take a sherlock to figure that one out. My finance network spans several hundred people that I speak to on a regular basis.

Right. So, let me get this straight.. You think any average joe blog mathematician can get into a quant hedge fund or prop house, and only the best get into GS' S&T program? Have you heard what the process is for the former? Do you know people who went through both (I do), and can compare? Did you know that the former has the highest concentration of IMO medalists out of any industry?

I wish I could give you a quick run down of my buddies' grad-entry pay packets, but that would have to be via PM not on an open forum. Alternatively, look at Glassdoor to get an idea because other than that, the only way you'll know is if you have friends within the industry.

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Finally, you've answered the question. This should've happened yesterday, but once again I apologise for my comments.
I didn't say any mathematician can get into a Quant, I know they recruit PhD students from Maths, physics etc from Cambridge, Oxford, Imperial and of course places like MIT. From my experience however, all the on-campus recruitment happens to be for IBD, so the sheer numbers would suggest IBD is the wheremost talented students are lured towards, and where the competition lies. What I can tell you with certainty, is that most Cambridge mathmos would never trade IBD for quant positions (of course that alone doesn't invalidate what you claim) and most wouldn't have heard of these firms. If I'm totally honest, I'm somewhat interested because I'm good at maths (rubbish at econ), but I just would be too scared to take that route as it is so relatively unknown. If you could suggest links, then maybe I could see where you're coming from.

Reply 50

https://www.quantstart.com/articles/Careers-in-Quantitative-Finance
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/bb-vs-trading-firms
https://www.quantnet.com/threads/quant-internship-and-graduate-recruitment-a-firms-list.10000/#post-91881
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/drw-vs-bbs
https://www.quora.com/How-can-a-beginner-break-into-Quant-Algo-trading

Original post by mahmoodjr

Finally, you've answered the question. This should've happened yesterday, but once again I apologise for my comments.
I didn't say any mathematician can get into a Quant, I know they recruit PhD students from Maths, physics etc from Cambridge, Oxford, Imperial and of course places like MIT. From my experience however, all the on-campus recruitment happens to be for IBD, so the sheer numbers would suggest IBD is the wheremost talented students are lured towards, and where the competition lies. What I can tell you with certainty, is that most Cambridge mathmos would never trade IBD for quant positions (of course that alone doesn't invalidate what you claim) and most wouldn't have heard of these firms. If I'm totally honest, I'm somewhat interested because I'm good at maths (rubbish at econ), but I just would be too scared to take that route as it is so relatively unknown. If you could suggest links, then maybe I could see where you're coming from.

Reply 51

https://www.quantstart.com/articles/Careers-in-Quantitative-Finance
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/bb-vs-trading-firms
https://www.quantnet.com/threads/quant-internship-and-graduate-recruitment-a-firms-list.10000/#post-91881
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/drw-vs-bbs
https://www.quora.com/How-can-a-beginner-break-into-Quant-Algo-trading

Original post by Princepieman

These are just forums, so are just opinions from people for whom we have no way check their reliability. Some of the informations likely to be biased (quantstart, quantnet), but overall it is rather interesting.

I was looking for an independent study of salaries (e.g. emolument.com research on IB compensation) - these forums aren't reliable information, are they?

Also, although they are quite informative, they don't really justify why a Quant HF career route is better than or even equal to an S&T route to a HF/PE. There are also no sources of information on the relative prestige of quant HF position.

I agree with what someone said earlier about taking the safe traditional route from IB>HF unless you can get into a (non-quant) HF through a contact. I also feel that the overall, all-rounded, experience you attain from from working as an analyst at a BB is better than specialising too quickly in quantitative modelling. As for quant HFs, there isn't enough mainstream info on them, which would make me avoid them. But in your case, you seem to be better informed about them so I see why you regard these positions very highly.

Reply 52

Original post by mahmoodjr

These are just forums, so are just opinions from people for whom we have no way check their reliability. Some of the informations likely to be biased (quantstart, quantnet), but overall it is rather interesting.

I was looking for an independent study of salaries (e.g. emolument.com research on IB compensation) - these forums aren't reliable information, are they?

Also, although they are quite informative, they don't really justify why a Quant HF career route is better than or even equal to an S&T route to a HF/PE. There are also no sources of information on the relative prestige of quant HF position.

I agree with what someone said earlier about taking the safe traditional route from IB>HF unless you can get into a (non-quant) HF through a contact. I also feel that the overall, all-rounded, experience you attain from from working as an analyst at a BB is better than specialising too quickly in quantitative modelling. As for quant HFs, there isn't enough mainstream info on them, which would make me avoid them. But in your case, you seem to be better informed about them so I see why you regard these positions very highly.

Emolument is self-reported and is often, not accurate - would hardly use it as a 'credible' source but as a guide or, rather trend visualisation, sure.

The links above were an 'introduction to quant HFs and some differences between quant HFs and BBs', I highly doubt anyone would bother to do an independent study on what is a subsection of a subsection of grad jobs - so, really, if you're expecting someone to rigorously test prestige (a subjective, opinion based metric), you will be disappointed. Prestige isn't a quantifiable metric.

Well. If you don't want to apply rigorous mathematics or you don't want to work with markets, Q-HFs are not the way to go. If you're a generalist and prefer the more qualitative HF strategies that lend themselves towards people with IBD skills - great.. All depends on what your priorities are and most of all what you want out of your career.

I still hold my prior comment, a top tier quant HF job (for those who have the right skillset for it) is absolutely a better grad destination than flow S&T or IBD. You're on the buyside already, your earning potential is pretty high, the hours aren't as intensive, the work is more stimulating (except for quant/strat teams in IBs) etc.. None of this applies if you want to do: IBD > L/S HF or IBD > PE, or S&T Rates/FX > Global Macro HF, it's not relevant and you can't directly compare the levels of prestige for these routes.

Finance is ultimately what you make of it.

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(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 53

Imperion

17

0 chills in this thread

Reply 54

123_qwerty

OP

12

I did some reading on quant Hedge Funds, but there isn't much information online (about salaries, training, work) from people who actually work at a Quant fund. What I know from my spring week this year, is that quants/strats in IBD arn't compensated as well as S&T because thy don't actively take on risk (people who take on the most risk tend to have the highest bonuses -senior traders for example). However, it could be different for quants at hedge funds, because their role is quite different.

Can anyone who has applied to, or working at a Hedge Fund please provide some insight?

Reply 55

Original post by 123_qwerty

I did some reading on quant Hedge Funds, but there isn't much information online (about salaries, training, work) from people who actually work at a Quant fund. What I know from my spring week this year, is that quants/strats in IBD arn't compensated as well as S&T because thy don't actively take on risk (people who take on the most risk tend to have the highest bonuses -senior traders for example). However, it could be different for quants at hedge funds, because their role is quite different.

Can anyone who has applied to, or working at a Hedge Fund please provide some insight?

Very unlikely someone at a QHF will respond.

At a hedge fund this is how its split:

Portfolio Managers
Quant Researchers/Strategists
Software 'Quant' Devs
Execution Traders

At a prop shop:
Quant Traders
Quant Researchers/Strategists
Software 'Quant' Devs

The top of the food chain is the PM role where you assume all the risk for your specific part of the fund and tangentially quant researchers come up with strategies to pitch to the PMs. If their strategies generate alpha, then they'll get a better bonus. PMs are, at the end of the day, decision makers and solely tied to the P&L of the fund they manage.

Quant devs work on the trading systems, they'll build all the necessary analytic tools needed to employ various strategies.

Execution are the people who place trades on behalf of the PM - they're not directly in charge of a book or a specific P&L; where the PM and to some extent the strategists are..

In a prop shop, there is no PM role but rather traders have their own individual P&L to manage.

Pay is too variable to comment on tbh, but fwiw, I have figures for my friends who just finished their first year at Jane Street as a trainee Quant Trader: ~£86k base + ~40% bonus. Basically pay is tied to how well your strategies work out (researchers/strats) or how well the overall fund does (PM) or how well your individual P&L is (quant trader).

At the big shops, training is pretty hands on for the first few years; if you're in a p&l generative role you might not get your own book anywhere from 6 months until about 2-3 years on the job.

Entry routes are through internships then conversion, applying direct for a grad job, doing some years on the sell-side or in AM first.

Btw, some strat teams actually do have their own books - e.g. Goldman.

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(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 56

Daniel9998

15

@princepieman would someone in AM have a stronger position in landing a hedge fund analyst role over someone coming from IBD or ER ?

Reply 57