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The EU could have avoided this

Had they placed real reform on the table during the negotiations with Cameron which went at least some way to alleviating Brexiters' problems with the EU.

I don't think most Brexiters are anti-Europe. I think most probably buy into the whole stronger together, maintaining peace in Europe, etc. vision. Had their real gripes with the EU faced the prospect of real reform, then I think they would have been sold and voted remain.
The people were unhappy. Cameron went to the EU for renegotiations and came back with nothing. He chose the time and place of battle and got slaughtered, kind of expected really.
Original post by Grand High Witch
Had they placed real reform on the table during the negotiations with Cameron which went at least some way to alleviating Brexiters' problems with the EU.

I don't think most Brexiters are anti-Europe. I think most probably buy into the whole stronger together, maintaining peace in Europe, etc. vision. Had their real gripes with the EU faced the prospect of real reform, then I think they would have been sold and voted remain.


Most of the Brexiters were fed half-truths - I mean, look at that ridiculous 350 GPB per week figure. The EU just became the scapegoat for all of Britain's issues. I doubt it would have changed that much.

Oh well. Just hope the backlash from the EU isn't too bad and the UK can pull through.
By compromising their fundamental principles.

People ***** about nobody having principles in politics, and then ***** about principles getting in the way of their whims. We've possibly just destroyed one of the most fair and benevolent political organisations in the world, because they wouldn't bend over backwards even further to accommodate us.

Original post by Hirondelle127
Most of the Brexiters were fed half-truths - I mean, look at that ridiculous 350 GPB per week figure. The EU just became the scapegoat for all of Britain's issues. I doubt it would have changed that much.

Oh well. Just hope the backlash from the EU isn't too bad and the UK can pull through.


Yep, nobody really cared about reform. The EU has caused the NHS to struggle, our schools to be underfunded, unemployment, people not being paid as much as they'd like, it was a big bad monster ruled by the elite coming to oppress us. People WANTED to blame the EU for all this **** it had nothing to do with.
Original post by JordanL_
By compromising their fundamental principles.

People ***** about nobody having principles in politics, and then ***** about principles getting in the way of their whims. We've possibly just destroyed one of the most fair and benevolent political organisations in the world, because they wouldn't bend over backwards even further to accommodate us.



Yep, nobody really cared about reform. The EU has caused the NHS to struggle, our schools to be underfunded, unemployment, people not being paid as much as they'd like, it was a big bad monster ruled by the elite coming to oppress us. People WANTED to blame the EU for all this **** it had nothing to do with.


It's such a shame. This is just the 1930s all over again. The majority of young people were pro-Remain though, so that should give some hope for the future. It would be really worrying if the bigots and xenophobes were the politicians of tomorrow, but thankfully that's not the case.

I still can't quite believe this has happened though.
Original post by JordanL_
By compromising their fundamental principles.

Communities cannot hold on rigidly to principles where change is required and practical. This sort of dogmatic approach does not lead to progress. It's the same sort of thing that prevented gay marriage from being legalised for so long.

We've possibly just destroyed one of the most fair and benevolent political organisations in the world, because they wouldn't bend over backwards even further to accommodate us.


Yes, very benevolent to Greece.
Reply 6
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DimT
12
Original post by Grand High Witch

Yes, very benevolent to Greece.


As a Greek I will just say this: At least they did something (even loans for profit), unlike the UK that decided to hide on their shell (as always). Something that summarizes the UK's behaviour in the EU throughout the years of it's membership pretty well. a) Reap the goods of the free trade, b) Stay totally uninvolved otherwise, but at the same time blame the Germans and the French for running the show...
The EU's arrogance is their downfall. If they tried to accommodate demands of us then Brexit wouldn't have happened. Instead they thought they knew best they thought we would vote to remain no mateer what. It serves them right. Britain never has been a good partner for the continent. There's too much history and pride to make it work. Brexit couldn't come soon enough.
Reply 8
Avatar for Vinny C
Vinny C
20
Original post by Grand High Witch
Had they placed real reform on the table during the negotiations with Cameron which went at least some way to alleviating Brexiters' problems with the EU.

I don't think most Brexiters are anti-Europe. I think most probably buy into the whole stronger together, maintaining peace in Europe, etc. vision. Had their real gripes with the EU faced the prospect of real reform, then I think they would have been sold and voted remain.


We had no leverage then and now we have, we are not using it. Bad strategy and lack of guts still plagues our negotiations. Initially, Cameron was intimidated by the EU and now May is intimidated by the Brexiteers.

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