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Eu: In or out?

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I think this turned out to be quite an easy decision for me to make. It's such a complex issue that the vast majority of people don't actually understand it and no one can say what will happen either way so i made the decision based on the following

1) Absolutely no one can predict the long term outcome of either decision so it's not even worth trying to base my decisions on long term what ifs

2) Voting to leave is a jump into the unknown and we'd be faced with a period of uncertainty - This isnt necessarily a bad thing however from my point of view life is good so i don't think it was worth taking that jump. Perhaps in a different part of the country life might not be so good for people so it is worth taking that risk and the jump into the unknown

3) similar to the point above. My default vote would be to remain and it is up to the leave campaign to tell me why i should vote for a big massive change. I haven't seen a convincing enough argument to make me think it's worth taking the above risk. I have seen legitimate arguments criticising the EU but not enough to make me want to come out of it entirely.

4) For those uncertain on which way to vote i think its good to look at the people who are backing either side. Looking at my facebook feed, debates i see at work, the politicians, celebrities etc etc i feel like there is a far greater number of morons and unlikeable people campaigning to leave.


Finally i think there probably is a decent argument to leave the EU but this has not been presented well. Neither campaign has covered themselves in glory but it's the IMO it's up to the leave campaign to convince me to leave not the remains job to convince me to remain and there have been some horrible horrible people campaigning to leave that any legitimately good argument to leave has just been completely overshadowed and lost.
Original post by ABoyHasNoName
seee when the great app that I pay £5 a month to get premium on (spotify) tells you to do something you listen!


Haha, nice one :smile:

Here's some more lyrics you might recognize:

Spoiler


In case you're wondering, I've cast my vote, and I think we'd better leave right now. :yep:
Original post by spotify95
Haha, nice one :smile:

Here's some more lyrics you might recognize:

Spoiler

In case you're wondering, I've cast my vote, and I think we'd better leave right now. :yep:


England singing:
"At first I was afraid, I was petrified
Kept thinking I could never live without you by my side
But then I spent so many nights thinking how you did me wrong
And I grew strong "
Original post by eminkinza
many countries dont want us to leave who are from the eu as were the strongest in there they depend on us ... and why would britain be forced to pay brussels for leaving ??? its alll david camereons , if he wasnt pm this wouldnt happened he is just greedy of power and a biig idiot who just catred about getting in power so he promised he would start a refrendum which is tots insane first thing i want is us to stay and second get david camereon over thrown ...


I would say Germany are stronger!
Reply 564
Avatar for eviter
eviter
7
I cant vote, but i would vote in .
The last time I did a poll on labour leadership on TSR it very accurately represented the actual result....

Please. No.
Here we go again: 4,500 picked up from Africa and brought to Europe in only ONE day.

http://www.dw.com/en/in-40-operations-4500-migrants-picked-up-from-mediterranean/a-19351295

How long until many of them are in the UK? They can even come legally with EU passports if a country gives them asylum. We are witnessing the end of Europe, brought upon by egalitarian progressivism.

Each and every single remain voter is guilty of this fate.
Original post by plstudent

How long until many of them are in the UK? They can even come legally with EU passports if a country gives them asylum. .


You don't get a passport with asylum.
Reply 568
Avatar for Kxjzh
Kxjzh
14
Original post by celloel
Out.

I'm 16, so I cannot actually vote, but if I were able to I would be voting out.


Same!! What I'd do to be able to vote!


Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by plstudent
Here we go again: 4,500 picked up from Africa and brought to Europe in only ONE day.

http://www.dw.com/en/in-40-operations-4500-migrants-picked-up-from-mediterranean/a-19351295

How long until many of them are in the UK? They can even come legally with EU passports if a country gives them asylum. We are witnessing the end of Europe, brought upon by egalitarian progressivism.

Each and every single remain voter is guilty of this fate.


This is one of the reasons why I voted Leave. Let's hope we actually do leave... :smile:
Original post by Liam0324
Whether you have voted to remain or leave I'm sure that we can all agree that both sides of the debate have proven that very rarely what you hear has been true. Both leave and remain have manipulated data and stats to try and get their point across. I've found it incredibly difficult to find actual facts and figures that have proven to be legitimate.


We will reap the whirlwind of that at the next general election. Politicians have seen that it is possible to win whilst lying about facts (rather than "political" lies that have always gone on). The view has always been that the electorate would punish that.
(edited 7 years ago)
u sure about that thats not wat other countries think .. but ok ... many depend on us
Original post by ABoyHasNoName
I would say Germany are stronger!
Original post by ABoyHasNoName
I would say Germany are stronger!

sorry, i did my research and your right i shouldn't have argued Germany is the strongest were the second not the most strongest
Original post by Kxjzh
Same!! What I'd do to be able to vote!


Posted from TSR Mobile



its so unfair its not just affecting the adults life even the ones younger, were not allowed to vote for a mayor or pm !!,HOWEVER THIS WOULD EFFECT US THE MOST!!we should have got the right to vote!!!this is ridiculous!!
Original post by eminkinza
its so unfair its not just affecting the adults life even the ones younger, were not allowed to vote for a mayor or pm !!,HOWEVER THIS WOULD EFFECT US THE MOST!!we should have got the right to vote!!!this is ridiculous!!


I'm sure giving a newborn the right to vote will go down well...

Posted from TSR Mobile
shut up im nearlly an adult.. so what u taking about!
Original post by Jammy Duel
I'm sure giving a newborn the right to vote will go down well...

Posted from TSR Mobile
Well, the British economy is already suffering and it's only been a day.

Now even more nations will likely attempt to leave the EU. Terrible economic repercussions for European nations, including the German and French giants.

As an extension, the UK will suffer badly if the EU does indeed begin to collapse. 50% of its exports still go to Europe. A collapsing economy won't allow for much demand for UK goods.

And well, I'm quite sure the Brits will not even get what they want. It's just that another sort of deal would be formed, where the UK has even more of a special status in the EU, with things going back to normal eventually. But then the risk of the EU collapsing has been heightened because of this.

Besides, the UK has lost in this day what it's 'lost' in 24 years of adding to the EU budget. And most of that 'lost' money in the 24 years came right back into the UK with EU funded projects and agricultural subsidies from the CAP.

Oh man, oh man, only if people had any idea about economics.

However, one good thing which may come out of this could be the elites, lobbyists and corporations paying more attention to the common folk. The people have shown how fed up they are. Globalization is the end goal of most large multinationals, so they'll have to pacify the Brits somehow, perhaps by improving their living standards and bringing back some form democracy. So, well, maybe in the long run, just maybe, this may have been a good thing. I sure hope so.
Original post by eminkinza
its so unfair its not just affecting the adults life even the ones younger, were not allowed to vote for a mayor or pm !!,HOWEVER THIS WOULD EFFECT US THE MOST!!we should have got the right to vote!!!this is ridiculous!!


Unfortunately, many people in around that age are too easily influenced.
Reply 578
Avatar for eddso
eddso
3
Original post by eminkinza
its so unfair its not just affecting the adults life even the ones younger, were not allowed to vote for a mayor or pm !!,HOWEVER THIS WOULD EFFECT US THE MOST!!we should have got the right to vote!!!this is ridiculous!!


16 and 17 year olds should not have the right to vote.

Yes, the result will affect your life. It will affect a ten year old's life too. It will affect a 5 year old's life too. It will affect a new born's life too. Some are just too young to fully comprehend the arguments and/or vote responsibly.

That is not to say that 16 and 17 year olds are not politically informed as some are, but they are very much in the minority and even still do not have all the information required for an educated and reasonable vote.

I started to get very political at around 16 years old and I started thinking I knew everything and that I had formed my opinions and I just wanted to vote. Now that I have hit 18 I have realised how uninformed I was, even though I thought I knew a lot. Politics is a very complicated world and one which 16 and 17 years olds have not had the time to fully explore. Since growing up (yes, growing up) in a political sense, the party I thought I would support has changed because I understood which greater maturity and depth the intricacies of party policy and ideology. Unfortunately I strongly do not believe that 16 and 17 years are able to have developed this understanding.

What's more, many many many young people would vote irresponsibly. We saw it with this referendum, some voters treating it as a game, some voted leave not because they were against the EU but because they were against Westminister. With ill educated youngsters, there is an immense danger of damaging results due to many treating the vote as some sort of joke.

Again, that is not to say that some young people are not politically astute. Those who are, however, are let down by the overwhelming majority of those who are not. What I would say, however, is that the vote is a small part of the political world. If you want your voice to be heard at 16 or 17 you still can without the vote; join the party/ campaign that you wish to support and start supporting them by becoming an activist. Spread the word of your beliefs and strengthen the ideology you support. That is a more productive way of using your political awareness than giving the vote to a majority of ill educated people.
Original post by eminkinza
shut up im nearlly an adult.. so what u taking about!


But the logic applied to allowing 16-17 to vote can be extended all the way down to newborns, and the whole argument of younger people being affected more means that we should give bites to the unborn!

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