If capital punishment isn't worth one innocent person being executed....

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By "we" I mean what you do by the phrase "the powers that be".

Currently both forms of justice are considered unacceptable. I'm saying if I had to re-implement one I know it definitely wouldn't be killing people.

What powers that be? The contemporary western ones?

They don't codify ethical philosophy for all of eternity. They're just a flash in the pan in a macrohistorical sense, like liberalism itself.

Reply 41

Dheorl

Original post by Anthony Ludovici

What powers that be? The contemporary western ones?

They don't codify ethical philosophy for all of eternity. They're just a flash in the pan in a macrohistorical sense, like liberalism itself.

Jesus Christ. I'm using the phrase you used. You tell me what the **** you meant by it.

My point is in this country neither is acceptable, but I think one is definitely a better option and I don't see how the other conclusion is logical.

Reply 42

Anthony Ludovici

Original post by Dheorl

So you're, what, using a disdainful term I used for the status quo as a legitimate defense as to why things shouldn't change?

What did you mean by this, goy?

Reply 43

Dheorl

Original post by Anthony Ludovici

So you're, what, using a disdainful term I used for the status quo as a legitimate defense as to why things shouldn't change?

What did you mean by this, goy?

I don't care what phrase you used or I used. How can you not understand the basic concept of my comment. Are you really that much of a ****ing moron?

I'm not saying things shouldn't change, at no point have I, I'm just saying if they were to change then capital punishment clearly isn't the way forward to ignorant ****tard.

Reply 44

Anthony Ludovici

Original post by Dheorl

It clearly isn't the way forward because...?

Reply 45

Dheorl

Original post by Anthony Ludovici

It clearly isn't the way forward because...?

Because as mentioned putting someone to work is better in every conceivable way. Are you really such a ****tard that you can't even read a sentence?

Reply 46

Anthony Ludovici

Original post by Dheorl

Because as mentioned putting someone to work is better in every conceivable way. Are you really such a ****tard that you can't even read a sentence?

Forced labor doesn't result in a null chance of recidivism though. Nor do the costs of housing and maintaining him necessarily mean he'll be a net contributor if the work is just labor for the sake of labor.

Labor camp should be reserved for robbers and the like. They can potentially be reformed if they're smart enough. I genuinely believe in the adage that work will set one free.

Reply 47

Dheorl

Original post by Anthony Ludovici

Then do something that isn't just "labour for the sake of labour". If you don't think they should see the light of day again then fine, keep them working for the rest of their lives in a secure area.

Also you have some really ****ed up assumptions as to what type of person a criminal must be based on their crimes.

Reply 48

seanthubb

Original post by Anthony Ludovici

It's not up to me to prove your own unsupported postulated hypothesis wrong dude. Learn to rhetoric.

LOL.

Same reason self-help books exist you ****ing idiot.

I haven't claimed that teaching and reasoning with them is proven to work though, only that it should be tried. So learn reading comprehension.

Yeah, no. Especially considering that most of those classes are actually free so unlike those books, it's not for profit.

Reply 49

Underscore__

Original post by Anthony Ludovici

Only capital punishment ensures a null rate of recidivism. It also acts as a deterrent, when used liberally enough.

People don't reoffend if they're incarcerated for the rest of their life. By claiming capital punishment serves as a deterrent you show how uneducated you are. Homicide rates in US states with capital punishment are significantly higher than states without. A university of Colorado study found that 88% of criminologists believed capital punishment is not an effective deterrent while only 5% believe it is and that number fell from 11% over the course of the study. But hey if it's such a great deterrent why don't we use it for all crime or better yet apply it to civil wrongs as well.

Original post by Anthony Ludovici

Sweden has the highest rate of rape in all of Europe.

Norway has one of the lowest crime, incarceration and recidivism rates in the world. So what's your point?

Original post by Anthony Ludovici

Enjoy your brown immies, droog.

I have absolutely no idea what that is supposed to mean.

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Reply 50

Anthony Ludovici

Original post by Asiimov

Yeah, no. Especially considering that most of those classes are actually free so unlike those books, it's not for profit.

Plenty of people also practice quackery gratis. It doesn't change anything.

Reply 51

Anthony Ludovici

Original post by Underscore__

People don't reoffend if they're incarcerated for the rest of their life.

Homicide rates in US states with capital punishment are significantly higher than states without. A university of Colorado study found that 88% of criminologists believed capital punishment is not an effective deterrent while only 5% believe it is and that number fell from 11% over the course of the study. But hey if it's such a great deterrent why don't we use it for all crime or better yet apply it to civil wrongs as well.

The US executes about 30 people per year, and posts thousands of murders every year. It's not a deterrent simply because 99% of the people who murder in cold blood will never be executed anyway.

Not to mention that the strict liability capital punishment for drug trafficking in Singapore has undoubtedly reduced the incidence of trafficking.

Norway has one of the lowest crime, incarceration and recidivism rates in the world. So what's your point?

Again, East Asia has even lower crime rates. So why use Norway as a model?

Reply 52

Underscore__

Original post by Anthony Ludovici

The US executes about 30 people per year, and posts thousands of murders every year. It's not a deterrent simply because 99% of the people who murder in cold blood will never be executed anyway.

No they don't, last year was 20%+ lower than every year proceeding it until 1991. That's besides the point anyway, states with capital punishment have more murders, clearly that demonstrates Americans aren't deterred. The problem is you're giving a logical perspective in the sense that to a right minded person the risk of death would make you think twice but murderers are so rarely in such a logical mindset.

Original post by Anthony Ludovici

Not to mention that the strict liability capital punishment for drug trafficking in Singapore has undoubtedly reduced the incidence of trafficking.

1. How do you know the amount of drugs has been reduced?
2. How do you know it wasn't other things?

Original post by Anthony Ludovici

Again, East Asia has even lower crime rates. So why use Norway as a model?

Because Norway's system works, there are no examples of countries using it with no success. There are plenty of crime ridden countries using capital punishment which says to me Singapore's low crime rate is caused by something else.

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Reply 53

Jjj90

I get the impression you just wanted a chance to use the word 'recidivist'.

Reply 54

oldercon1953

I think it's been pretty much demonstrated that C.P. is not a deterent . I supported it for a long time without really knowing why. It just seemed the proper response; " you take a life, you forfeit yours". I finally saw that this stance had nothing to do with rehabilitation. In fact ,it left no room for rehabilitation. It doesn't even leave room for a less sever sentence for a conviction of capital murder. Then I realized that murder is not an ordinary crime like rape or kidnapping. In these crimes we look mainly at the victims,(not always), and determine the severity of the crime by the degree of harm done to the victim. Murder is more of a crime against humanity. All other crimes culminate in murder. It's the ultimate outrage against everyone and Capital Punishment is the ultimate penalty.
Society has to feel it has the ultimate answer for the ultimate crime against it. Any deterence it accomplishes is good but not it's designed purpose.
There's a lot here to disagree with and I'm certain many of you will.