Why was this decision even given to the British public?

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Jesus some of the stuff said on here. Also not sure how Physicsphysics hasn't been banned yet? Some of the crap he comes out with.

Reply 101

geoking

Original post by tanyapotter

Why should they have had the power in the first place to undo 43 years of membership in the EU without being well informed about the consequences that would ensue? This matter should have been settled within parliament, where an overwhelming majority realised how terrible a Brexit would be for Great Britain - professionals who have studied law, politics, economics, etc. all their life. David Cameron is going to rue the day he ever gave into pressure from the Tory backbenchers. Even Boris Johnson and Michael Gove didn't want this to happen, but now "in the name of democracy" we're all going to suffer so unnecessarily.

Politicians are not professionals. They're idiots who have never worked an honest day in their lives. Osbourne claimed income would drop by 2030 for each household by £4k. He came up with that figure by dividing the estimated GDP drop by the number of houses in the country. Household income and GDP are not, nor have ever been, related. We need an entire restructure of UK government as the people in charge are not fit to lead.

Reply 102

physicsphysics91

Original post by Malevolent

Jesus some of the stuff said on here. Also not sure how Physicsphysics hasn't been banned yet? Some of the crap he comes out with.

Because I've not said anything bad. Just because you're a triggered liberal doesnt mean I get a ban, wheres your safespace now?

Reply 103

Malevolent

Original post by physicsphysics91

Because I've not said anything bad. Just because you're a triggered liberal doesnt mean I get a back, wheres your safespace now?

The more that comes out your mouth the stupider you look. "Ooo man look you're triggered hur hur hur" :lol:

Reply 104

physicsphysics91

Original post by Malevolent

The more that comes out your mouth the stupider you look. "Ooo man look you're triggered hur hur hur" :lol:

You cant handle the meme magic.

Reply 105

Jazzyboy

I'm a Remain supporter, and I definitely don't think that this referendum shouldn't have happened. A very considerable amount of the British people wanted it to happen, and several MPs and other politicians were backing it. It was also just a very important decision which affects us all. It needed to be put forward to public vote. Doing otherwise would have been an insult to democracy.

And yes, democracy does have it's problems. It means that the uneducated have as much power as the educated. However, the alternative is a fascist state, in which we might well have an educated leadership for a while, which serves us well. However, I think history has shown us that an unelected and unaccountable government will eventually be succeeded by the uneducated and the corrupt. The whole reason we have a democratic government now is because our totalitarian monarchy didn't work. We ended up with a monarch who had no idea how to run the country, and served only himself. The people fought back, won, and formed a democratic government. Keep in mind though that once upon a time, our monarchy actually worked well. It broke down over time, just like any unelected leadership inevitably will.

Reply 106

moggis

Original post by Jazzyboy

You say that not giving the public a chance to vote on this would have been an insult to democracy ?

But the only reason we ever got this vote is because a) Cameron thought it was a good way of getting votes back from UKIP and b) to everyone's great surprise the Tories won a majority.If Labour hadn't elected a complete dick as leader we wouldn't be discussing this.

Osbourne for one was against it . And of course we have gone 40 years without such a vote.

Now if you are saying that for decades the whole political system was an insult to democracy then fine.

Ironically enough that's partly why so many people are so angry. Because our party political system combined with the first past the post system is the real 'insult to democracy.'

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 107

mariachi

Original post by SaucissonSecCy

Wrong according to people who voted for them, it is still democracy and by a country mile the most precious thing we have. If not we have dictatorship, or alternatively self selecting bodies like in the EU.

the EU's institutions are not at all self-selecting.

The EU's legislation is adopted by the Member States' Governments via the Council of the EU and by the European Parliament. (EP). Both bodies have a democratic mandate : the Governments have the confidence of their respective Parliaments, and the EP is directly elected.

I am amazed when people post stupidities like "the EP has no powers" : in fact, in most areas, it is a co-legislator, on the same level as the EU Council.

AS to the European Commission, it is an executive body. It is designated by the Council, but it receives a confidence vote by the directly-elected EP, which can also dismiss it. It has therefore a clear democratic mandate, just like any national Government. Like any national executive, it can propose legislation to the legislative bodies (a two-chamber system : Council and EP) but it does not adopt or amend legislation by itself. It has, of course, many administrative duties and competences.

what is un-democratic in this system ?

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 108

username1204031

Original post by Jazzyboy

The alternative isn't a fascist state. The alternative is a representative democracy, which is what the UK is supposed to be.

Reply 109

Betelgeuse-

Original post by Mathemagicien

Democracy = People telling us what THEY want, not what some fatcat politician on the gravy chain wants

British are great fans of democracy, even where it doesn't belong, our whole culture revolves around the idea of democracy. Very few people actually think its a bad idea, until the little trashy peasants we mock, chastise and deride bring our whole little metropolitan elitist £3 holding latte bubble crashing around us down by doing something we dont like

Fyp

Reply 110

Jee1

I'm so proud of Northerners for years they have been ignored by the political elites that only cared about the city of London.
The PEOPLE have spoken there is no going back
And in the words of the EU presiden Junker "OUT MEANS OUT"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 111

snailsareslimy

Original post by Gora The Xplorer

Use a source I can take seriously or else I'll start posting Mail articles just to spite you.

He might be quoting the Guardian, but what the article states is right, too. France import a lot of our lamb/mutton, for example. If tariffs are put in place, they'll simply source it from somewhere else, without tariffs. Which mean we're either left with produce we can't sell, or we drop the price (again) and make more of a loss than we already do. If free trade is established, then great, that much is fine, but a large proportion of the electorate voted for leave on the basis of border controls, and that won't happen if we're to trade with the EU. You might say that we can just sell it somewhere else, and that is correct, but leave is yet to show any real sense of leadership and begin serious negotiations. There was no plan in place for if leave won. Gove himself said that he wanted "informal" decisions at the moment, Boris said there was no rush to begin the legal process of leaving the EU. Call me a cynic, but I think that evasive language really means they don't want to deal with the consequences of this vote. It was a political circus which backfired.

That's all my own opinion, though. I'm sure things will become clearer over the next few days.

Reply 112

illegaltobepoor

Original post by tanyapotter

Tanya you have no idea what Britain has just done. We have said bye to the red tape. We have a opportunity now to build dozens of small business from the ground up without standing on EU landmines.

Germany however has just been dealt a huge blow. We have basically pulled up the draw bridge and said a big V salute to BMW & Volkswagen. If you want to trade your cars in Britain your going to have to pay our Tariff's!
Same goes to all European car producers.

Its almost as the UK & Nigel Farage has just took a shotgun and shot a huge gaping wound in the European Union which is bleeding out for the 5th day.

Also its worthless talking Brits down saying your food prices will increase! Load of rubbish. Aldi has expanded to the USA and their food prices are ultra cheap. Its not because of EU trade that food prices have gone down in the last 10 years but because of business practice and automation.

The EU is a joke anyway. Its just another attempt to make a Soviet Union.

I'll leave you with Lenin Cat to cheer you up.

[video="youtube;DKTA_agCj50"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKTA_agCj50[/video]

Reply 113

illegaltobepoor