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Scotland leaving to Join the EU

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Reply 40

Ducky09

Well if they do...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eo-KmOd3i7s

Reply 41

Gora The Xplorer

Original post by welshiee

Yes we are but good riddance to them. Scotland leaving will lead them to collapse in the Eurozone and lead to us eventually being richer with a potential customer base of over 2 billion people. The world is opened up to us now more than ever before. Both Wales and England will benefit from Scotland leaving as they obtain more GDP per capita than either of us.

Scotland would be better off leaving the UK and going it alone in a globalised market with a Scottish currency than it would adopting the Euro and joining the failing Eurozone. Joining the Euro and Eurozone is like jumping on the titanic after its already hit the iceberg and claiming 'oh well its better to be on the big ship than on one of the little dingy's'

You have to be a special sort of idiot to think joining the Eurozone now is a good thing, unless of course you're Turkey or Albania.

Scotland is heavily subsidised by the rest of the UK, they are clearly better off in the United Kingdom than a Britain-free EU. It's like they made their decision based off of them watching Braveheart

Reply 42

1420787

Original post by Danny the Geezer

The grass ain't always greener...

True, but the signficance of that depends on whether green grass is what you're after. Sometimes you just don't want Boris Johnson or some other Tory career politician chasing your much-needed gardener off the lawn for being a bit too foreign.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 43

1420787

Original post by Gora The Xplorer

No worse than basing Thursday's decision on watching Brexit: The Movie :wink:

In fact, Braveheart could have had Mel Gibson riding into battle on a unicorn and it still would have been no more inaccurate.

Reply 44

Gora The Xplorer

Original post by offhegoes

No worse than basing Thursday's decision on watching Brexit: The Movie :wink:

In fact, Braveheart could have had Mel Gibson riding into battle on a unicorn and it still would have been no more inaccurate.

Funny guy, I'll deport you last :wink:

Reply 45

Crb822

Even if Scotland did leave the UK it is highly unlikely that the EU would accept them as alone their economy isn't strong enough and the EU don't want what happened with Greece to occur all over again. Scotland need the UK much more than it needs them. In my opinion Sturgeon will destroy Scotland if she leads another referendum and wins. If you want out fine, but say goodbye to your free subscriptions.

Reply 46

Josb

Original post by elitepower

100%. As a English (not proud to be associated with that term this week) person living in Scotland, I previously believing stay was the correct answer for the benefits on both nations. However with this vote, I get Scotland's desire for independence. They don't see a union, they see a anchor dragging them into mistakes they vehemently oppose. Scotland has made it very clear they oppose this and it leaving is now inevitable.

Spain and Belgium will veto Scotland entry in the EU. Do you understand?

Original post by elitepower

Scotland wants to be european. The pound has crashed, companies will flee, jobs will be lost. What benefit is there to Scotland staying? Its a choice between something they like and want vs a union they see as a burden where their decisions are overridden and is chaos.

The pound has returned to its 2014 level against the Euro.

Scotland independence would be much worse for them than Brexit.

Reply 47

Gora The Xplorer

Original post by Josb

Spain and Belgium will veto Scotland entry in the EU. Do you understand?

This. It's just not going to happen.

Reply 48

elitepower

Original post by Josb

Spain and Belgium will veto Scotland entry in the EU. Do you understand?

Possibly. However then its a choice between a England dominated Scotland not in the EU vs a independent Scotland that can negotiate its own relationship with the EU. If England is going to drag Scotland down, they might as well get independence out of it.

Original post by Josb

The pound has returned to its 2014 level against the Euro.

Scotland independence would be much worse for them than Brexit.

I really don't think you understand how much Scotland hates the position it is in. This isn't just about this matter but England again dragging them into situations they oppose. There is open widespread support for Independence referendum 2. Its not a case of independence vs brexit - which is better? It is the union has made a decision we are very much against, we are going to be put in a poor decision either way, we want to have a good relation with the EU, we are sick of England year after year forcing policies we don't support through, it simply isn't possible for Scotland to be happy in the union.

Reply 49

Josb

Original post by elitepower

I really don't think you understand how much Scotland hates the position it is in.

You unfortunately have to deal with that. Leaving the UK would be much worse.

Reply 50

elitepower

Original post by Josb

You unfortunately have to deal with that. Leaving the UK would be much worse.

But Scotland doesn't have to deal with that. It has a viable alternative - independence.

I think we can all agree the short term future is pretty bleak. I heard a Leave voter argue today that people voted Leave because it was already so bad for them, they couldn't imagine it being worse. This is the position Scotland finds themselves in.

Its going to be bad. Leave made sure of that. Now should Scotland stick it out until the Brexit car crash recovers to have another incident where they get screwed over again or take the double hit now to pull through to a nation secure in the knowledge they have control?

Also I think this week has proven everyone isn't going to vote rationally and there is a lot of ammunition to tear the union apart. The case for Scotland staying is much weaker than this time last week and it just pulled through last time. Why would Scotland believe in the union?

Its like stabbing someone and asking them to stay with you. Its very hard to convince them and it isn't like this would be cutting off their nose to spite you as they DO get benefits like independence from it.

I'm on the ground. I have seen how people have reacted and talking. This isn't going to blow over and "just be accepted". This is the end.

Reply 51

L i b

Original post by elitepower

Come up here and talk to people if you believe that. People are furious. All the benefits and arguments of the Stay campaign have been wiped out overnight.

I'm sorry, but that's utter madness to suggest. Scotland still benefits from a huge degree of pooling and sharing resources within the United Kingdom and would still face a huge fiscal blackhole if it was to separate. Scotland's pensions are still more affordable across a wider population. Britain's tax base is still more secure across a diversified economy. Scotland still benefits from massive economies of scale in relation to defence, international representation and attracting business. Scotland benefits from being part of a strong currency area with integrated fiscal arrangements.

Scotland still trades four times as much with the rest of the UK than it does with the rest of the EU combined. The very idea of Scotland in the EU and the rest of the UK outside it is unthinkable: more unthinkable than the proposition we were faced with in 2014. We'd have a hard border with our closest neighbour, and be tied to a declining EU.

The rational argument still falls overwhelmingly in the direction of Scotland remaining in the UK. Don't let a few knee-jerk bits of commentary following a major shock shake the ultimate belief that Scotland is far better off within the UK.

Scotland sees themselves as Europeans

To quote from analysis of the Scottish Social Attitudes Survey: "In 2014, just 9% of people in Scotland described themselves as ‘European’, compared with the 15% figure for Britain as a whole"

Reply 52

elitepower

Original post by L i b

The rational argument still falls overwhelmingly in the direction of Scotland remaining in the UK. Don't let a few knee-jerk bits of commentary following a major shock shake the ultimate belief that Scotland is far better off within the UK.

Shake the belief, too late for that; its gone. Why would Scotland want a "union" with a partner that is constantly going to do the opposite of what it wants and destroy its economy?

The fact is if there is enough argument for a Leave victory for exiting the EU, there is arguments for a case for Scotland leaving the UK. New trading partners, benefiting from freedom ect. And the UK is a much worse partner to Scotland than the EU ever was to Britain. Why on earth would the people of Scotland listen to people like Boris Johnson - who has been exposed to lie to get what he wants and would be forcing a decision they don't want on them?

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 53

L i b

Original post by elitepower

If its a vote between stay in a union that constantly disregards and drags the people of Scotland into decisions they oppose vs independence, then I see why the people of Scotland are leaving. Because of Leave voters, Scottish people are getting a uncertain economic future either way - they might as well break away from the anchor making the terrible choices now before it does more damage to them.

Scotland has always been more small-c conservative than the rest of the UK. Scotland has been more strongly tied to the established church in the past, less tolerant of homosexuality. Scotland has been slower to adopt major change in the public sector giving citizens choice over provision.

Even today, we see Scotland being the place that seems to passionately stand against things like educational reform with greater autonomy for schools and more direct funding - even when it has been shown to be successful - only in the past year has it begun to follow England in that regard. There are still parts of Scotland where having ferries arrive on a Sunday prompts angry local protests.

There's your progressive paradise.

Reply 54

nulli tertius

Original post by Gora The Xplorer

Good luck when Spain vetos your membership

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11054187/Spain-and-Belgium-would-veto-an-independent-Scotlands-EU-membership.html

:rofl:

That was then. The game has changed since then.

Reply 55

username1204031

Original post by ATW1

Scotland chose to remain part of the UK. Sturgeon and co. should stop complaining, the UK as a whole voted to Leave. If Scotland does vote for independence, they would almost certainly end up worse off than the UK they left behind.

Scotland chose to remain part of the EU.

Reply 56

ATW1

Original post by JordanL_

Scotland chose to remain part of the EU.

Whether Scotland like it or not, they are leaving the EU one way or another.

Reply 57

username1204031

Original post by ATW1

Whether Scotland like it or not, they are leaving the EU one way or another.

That's not very democratic. If Scotland want their independence, they'll get it. I love how everyone demands their freedom from their EU oppressors and tells anyone who says they'll be worse off to shut up, and then when Scotland wants their independence from us the same people are telling them they aren't allowed and they'll be worse off.

Reply 58

ATW1

Original post by JordanL_

If the people of Scotland want democracy, they would be delighted to be leaving the EU. I never said Scotland couldn't or aren't allowed to be independent, that's entirely their decision, but regardless of whether they are in or out of the UK, they will be out of the EU. They will be worse off outside the UK though, we send so much money over Hadrian's wall.