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You can't say I'm racist because
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Original post by Adamski191
Excuse me, but do you even know what race 'is'? If so, do tell me.
Polish are predominantly Caucasian, that is the "race" of the majority of them.
Ethnicity = the culture of people in a given geographic region, including their language, heritage, religion and customs. To be a member of an ethnic group is to conform to some or all of those practices.
Race = a social construct but usually associated with Biology. It has nothing to do with learned behaviour but focuses on regional differences and heritage.
Original post by WBZ144
Race = a social construct but usually associated with Biology. It has nothing to do with learned behaviour but focuses on regional differences and heritage.
Exactly. You can insult someone's heritage and be racist.
Original post by Adamski191
Exactly. You can insult someone's heritage and be racist.
That's only part of the package though. For an example, I'm Black British. Sure I have African and Caribbean heritage but ethnically and culturally my identity is more specific. So, while my race is "Black", my ethnicity would depend on exactly where in Africa my ancestors originated from and my culture (if I have one) is very Westernised, so would probably be British.
I can see how hating a particular ethnicity could be at least borderline racism though.
The word 'racist' is overused and losing its meaning. We should use the correct terminology to refer to things, otherwise it all just becomes nonsense.
However, someone who dislikes Islam isn't necessarily a bigot, and somebody against uncontrolled immigration isn't necessarily a xenophobe. So we shouldn't be too fast and loose with these terms either.
The response to everything nowadays is "that's racist!" or "that's bigoted!" It's intellectually lazy, and often signifies the person making the accusation doesn't have a constructive argument to make. But sadly, it works. Once you've been called racist, many people are going to believe it, and it will taint your reputation.
However, someone who dislikes Islam isn't necessarily a bigot, and somebody against uncontrolled immigration isn't necessarily a xenophobe. So we shouldn't be too fast and loose with these terms either.
The response to everything nowadays is "that's racist!" or "that's bigoted!" It's intellectually lazy, and often signifies the person making the accusation doesn't have a constructive argument to make. But sadly, it works. Once you've been called racist, many people are going to believe it, and it will taint your reputation.
Original post by WBZ144
And how do you differentiate them from the average one on the streets who happens to have a few negative personality traits such as being rude but doesn't quite sink to their level? Why the attempt to trivialise their hatred?
No need to over complicate things, they're simple people, they understand ****.
It's a complicated one, because depending on social context, religion can be a proxy for ethnic or communal identification. For example, in Germany, whether you are Catholic or Protestant has little impact on your daily life, and you can quite easily identify as neither or convert from one to the other without much difficulty. In Northern Ireland, by contrast, whether you are Catholic or Protestant defined which community you belong to. Furthermore, that identification is effectively permanent, regardless of you actual beliefs - ceasing to be 'Catholic' in NI is not simply a matter of conversion or becoming an atheist.
Similarly, in Albania there are Catholics, Muslims and Orthodox Christians, who live together with little tension. Just a day's drive northwest, however, is Bosnia, where the same religious divisions saw a genocidal war in the 1990s and still defines the country's politics today.
While ethnic polarisation in the UK isn't that bad, there is a level of it. Referring to the "Muslim Community" in the UK will not necessarily be interpreted as just referring to religiously observant Muslims, but to potentially more or less everyone of that heritage. At the same time, there are those who don't really believe, but feel pressured to keep up some minimal level of observance for communal relations.
Though in short, treating it like something you can just stop being is far too simplistic.
Similarly, in Albania there are Catholics, Muslims and Orthodox Christians, who live together with little tension. Just a day's drive northwest, however, is Bosnia, where the same religious divisions saw a genocidal war in the 1990s and still defines the country's politics today.
While ethnic polarisation in the UK isn't that bad, there is a level of it. Referring to the "Muslim Community" in the UK will not necessarily be interpreted as just referring to religiously observant Muslims, but to potentially more or less everyone of that heritage. At the same time, there are those who don't really believe, but feel pressured to keep up some minimal level of observance for communal relations.
Though in short, treating it like something you can just stop being is far too simplistic.
Original post by Dandaman1
The word 'racist' is overused and losing its meaning. We should use the correct terminology to refer to things, otherwise it all just becomes nonsense.
However, someone who dislikes Islam isn't necessarily a bigot, and somebody against uncontrolled immigration isn't necessarily a xenophobe. So we shouldn't be too fast and loose with these terms either.
The response to everything nowadays is "that's racist!" or "that's bigoted!" It's intellectually lazy, and often signifies the person making the accusation doesn't have a constructive argument to make. But sadly, it works. Once you've been called racist, many people are going to believe it, and it will taint your reputation.
However, someone who dislikes Islam isn't necessarily a bigot, and somebody against uncontrolled immigration isn't necessarily a xenophobe. So we shouldn't be too fast and loose with these terms either.
The response to everything nowadays is "that's racist!" or "that's bigoted!" It's intellectually lazy, and often signifies the person making the accusation doesn't have a constructive argument to make. But sadly, it works. Once you've been called racist, many people are going to believe it, and it will taint your reputation.
This.
I hate how the word racist is constantly being used in the wrong context.
OP- I am quite confused to what you mean, Islam is an ideology? White, Black, Asian Muslims exist?
Original post by Zargabaath
I agree with you OP, tarnishing all muslims the same way is extremely prejudice. I wouldn't call it xenophobia, however i would call it outright stupid. Anyone with half a brain cell can see the issue with hating millions based on religion. It's the same with any ideological group.
BUT i do have to add this must not and can not be confused with Islam the ideology. There is no wrong in attacking the religion itself.
BUT i do have to add this must not and can not be confused with Islam the ideology. There is no wrong in attacking the religion itself.
Unfortunately, many people confuse criticising Islam with hating Muslims, it's like most Muslims find it difficult to distinguish between the two.
poles are a race
muslims are not a race
islam is a political and spiritual ideology
criticizing an ideology does not make you racist.
islam is not above criticism. conservatism is not above criticism. no ideology is above criticism.
end of
muslims are not a race
islam is a political and spiritual ideology
criticizing an ideology does not make you racist.
islam is not above criticism. conservatism is not above criticism. no ideology is above criticism.
end of
insulting a group of people by virtue of their race is racism. considering a group of people inferior by virtue of their race is racism. criticizing an intolerant ideology is not racism. trying to shut down islam critics by screaming islamophobia or racism is an intellectually dishonest sjw tactic. unlimited tolerance causes a paradox of tolerance. karl popper said "Less well known is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them."
(edited 7 years ago)
Where did I say anything about criticising Islam? Reread my OP, if you still don't get it then you have a problem.
Original post by loveleest
Unfortunately, many people confuse criticising Islam with hating Muslims, it's like most Muslims find it difficult to distinguish between the two.
That's true, but it goes both ways. There is plenty of blatant hatred towards Muslims that people have tried to pass off as "criticising Islam" as well.
Original post by WBZ144
Where did I say anything about criticising Islam? Reread my OP, if you still don't get it then you have a problem.
you don't give any examples in your post. you just give your opinion on the claim "you can't say i'm racist because poles aren't a race/muslims aren't a race". if you don't give examples i'm gonna assume you're another sjw trying to shut down criticisms by claiming criticizing islam is racist and/or islamophobic.
We can all assume things, like I can assume that you're an anti-Muslim bigots who gets up in arms whenever anyone tries to discuss anti-Muslim bigotry and resorts to ad hominem attacks to try and shut down said discussions.
Considering what my OP was, why would I have to give examples? Unless you are denying that bigotry towards these groups exists?
Considering what my OP was, why would I have to give examples? Unless you are denying that bigotry towards these groups exists?
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by anosmianAcrimony
You can still be racist about a group that isn't a race. It's just a stupid thing to do.
How can you be racist if its not a race? How can criticising a religious ideology and it's followers qualify as racism when they are not a race? This.
Original post by WBZ144
We can all assume things, like I can assume that you're an anti-Muslim bigots who gets up in arms whenever anyone tries to discuss anti-Muslim bigotry and resorts to ad hominem attacks to try and shut down said discussions.
Considering what my OP was, why would I have to give examples? Unless you are denying that bigotry towards these groups exists?
Considering what my OP was, why would I have to give examples? Unless you are denying that bigotry towards these groups exists?
without examples your OP is pure emotionalism.
So, anytime someone wants to discuss racism, homophobia, anti-Semitism or any other forms of bigotry examples must be provided? Well, that's a first.
What nonsense.
What nonsense.
Bang on the money
Repeat after me. Free speech is only acceptable when I agree with you. Your opinion should only be heard when it agrees with me. It's alright to force your ideas/beliefs/acceptance on people if I think it's a good idea. or it is in the name of justice. People who do not agree with my ideas/beliefs are bigots and need to be silenced. Your opinion/belief is wrong when it does not coincide with my own or I feel offended by it; or I think that someone somewhere has taken offence. If your opinion hurts anyone's feelings, or has the potential to, you should be immediately silenced and be labeled racist/sexist/homophobic/xenophobic/transphobic/classist/a bigot.
"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear"
-George Orwell
"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear"
-George Orwell
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