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UK Harvard application

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Original post by Princepieman
Development/legacy/athletic quotas account for about 7% of the class. URMs account for about 24% of the class, there is obviously overlap between the first category and the mix between URM, ORM (Asians) and the majority. So the true amount left for non URMs is closer to between 70-76%.

It isn't nonsense if the way Harvard has selected their students has resulted in multiple billionaires, multi millionaires, celebrity figures etc. They must be doing something right.

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If they select the kids of rich people, its not very surprising if they also become rich is it? But its interesting you admit Harvard is not a meritocracy.
Original post by Princepieman
Yeah, I'm aware, have helped friends through this process a lot. When I meant university, it was in the frame of Harvard's undergrad college (can't exactly apply to their Biz School or Law School or Med School without a UG degree). Indeed, for engineering and business, there might be separate applicant pools for different departments but the student still doesn't have to make up their mind on what specifc subject they'd like to apply to. If it's a science major they're preemptively looking at, they'd be applying to the general Arts and Sciences or Liberal Arts colleges within the wider university.

My point is, that university applications are looked upon within the frame of an overall 'class' and how different people 'fit' into this class and whether they'd contribute (with whatever unique talents or skills they have) to the atmosphere of the university.

Yeah, Harvard's SCEA admit rates are much higher that's true. Have way more friends that have been accepted SCEA than RD. And, nah, Harvard's isn't binding because it's not ED - it's called Single Choice (as in you can only apply to them early - except if you're also applying to state universities) Early Action. Not all unis have binding ED agreements, and those that do usually let you off if you choose an overseas uni instead or can't afford the uni.

Indeed, this is common knowledge. But even still, most applicants to top tier US unis will have solid grades, that's a given as people self-select out of applying in the same way they do in the UK. You also have to acknowledge that there are almost 5x more Americans than there are people in the UK.

Financial Aid is need blind and full need to international students at about 5 unis (Harvard, MIT, Princeton, Yale and Amherst), then there are need blind but not full need (Georgetown), then there are ~27 or so unis that promise to meet the full demonstrated need of an international student (i.e. they are very generous with their FA awards) but the requirement for FA is used as a factor in assessing your candidacy - doesn't mean they won't fully support you; if you're good enough, they will. Other unis outside of this either offer extremely competitive merit based awards (Morehead Cain, Jefferson, Robertson scholars), are stingy to everyone (NYU) or can just be luck of the draw for how much aid they're willing to dole out (most smaller, not as top tier liberal arts colleges fall into this).

Agree with your conclusion.





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Extremely informative, really great info.

Would say that while the US is 5x larger in terms of population it's also signicantly larger than 5x the area, which also has an impact! People tend to stick to their coasts more, and studying in state at a state college is obviously a lot cheaper because of reduced fees and you'll find a lot of smart people who just don't want to venture a plane ride away to study. In the UK it's small enough that people just study wherever. In the UK we are also conveniently located next to Europe, and the EU/EEA area is still noticeably smaller than the area of the US, so that's an whole new bunch of people for the applicant pool. Obviously there's other factors, the US has a more homogenous population than Europe etc, but I wouldn't say the general applicant pool for any one university would be 5x higher than for an equivalently sized and well reputed uk uni, still much higher though! :smile:
Original post by Princepieman
I see, yeah, you make a valid point actually. There's a huge lack of transparency about what makes a 'good' applicant and what kind rubric Harvard and other such institutions use to score applicants.

In that sense, yeah, people apply not knowing this and combined with the ambiguity of essays/ECs/interviews, the exact way applicants are selected becomes quite opaque. Thus, most students apply in the hope of getting accepted, and not with the confidence of at least, say, getting an interview (ala Oxbridge). For example, a 2400, 3A*s A-level, 10A*s GCSE student can't exactly bank on their grades for H-town but in applying to Oxbridge they know, at least, that they'll get an interview (not for all courses) and maybe even be pooled.

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Yes, this is exactly what I mean. Especially with Cambridge where they automatically pool people with high UMS, and Oxford they shortlist for interview on the basis of GCSE results and admissions test scores.

I am wondering if it is worth applying to American Ivies. I would rather go there than any university in the UK, but application fees are so expensive and it seems so random who gets in or not. Plus you have to write 19836492 essays. Did you by any chance apply to US universities?
i actually got in contact with a professor of political science in the Kennedy school of government (the political college branch in harvard) and he basically told me that they will request to see your academic record from 1st year- final year, they have strict criteria and shortlisting processes so if your application or academic record does meet at least 95% of that on the list then your application will be declined! sucks i know!
Original post by ♥Samantha♥
Yes, this is exactly what I mean. Especially with Cambridge where they automatically pool people with high UMS, and Oxford they shortlist for interview on the basis of GCSE results and admissions test scores.

I am wondering if it is worth applying to American Ivies. I would rather go there than any university in the UK, but application fees are so expensive and it seems so random who gets in or not. Plus you have to write 19836492 essays. Did you by any chance apply to US universities?


Yeah, that's correct.

I honestly would!! It doesn't matter how stacked the odds are against you, people will still get in to top tier US unis year in and year out; as long as you give it a shot you've got as much skin in the game as anyone. App fees are a pain yeah, you can ask for fee waivers though if you feel they'd be a detriment to you applying.

I would spread my apps (if I were you) between some LACs, some ivies/ivy tier and maybe one or two unis with solid merit scholarship schemes.

I've been super vested in the whole US uni thing for ages now, but no. Initially, I applied to a couple elite US boarding schools and got in (also applied to UWC, got in too but couldn't afford it) but decided not to go. Took the SAT early and got ~2250, applied to various university run summer programmes and got into: one run by Yale, one run by MIT (chose this) and one run by Wharton. And on top of that, the people I've met at that programme asked me for advice on the process etc plus school friends here and prior school friends from my old school too. Quite a lot of them have done pretty well.

I didn't apply for US unis because my previous teachers basically refused to write me a reference (until Warwick threatened them to lol) for any of my uni plans as I'm self teaching now and supposedly am no longer a part of the school. A.k.a unsubstantiated BS.

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(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Wahrheit
Extremely informative, really great info.

Would say that while the US is 5x larger in terms of population it's also signicantly larger than 5x the area, which also has an impact! People tend to stick to their coasts more, and studying in state at a state college is obviously a lot cheaper because of reduced fees and you'll find a lot of smart people who just don't want to venture a plane ride away to study. In the UK it's small enough that people just study wherever. In the UK we are also conveniently located next to Europe, and the EU/EEA area is still noticeably smaller than the area of the US, so that's an whole new bunch of people for the applicant pool. Obviously there's other factors, the US has a more homogenous population than Europe etc, but I wouldn't say the general applicant pool for any one university would be 5x higher than for an equivalently sized and well reputed uk uni, still much higher though! :smile:


Thanks!

Great reasoning overall, cheers for that, didn't think about the coast-clustering effect.

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Original post by Princepieman
Yeah, that's correct.

I honestly would!! It doesn't matter how stacked the odds are against you, people will still get in to top tier US unis year in and year out; as long as you give it a shot you've got as much skin in the game as anyone. App fees are a pain yeah, you can ask for fee waivers though if you feel they'd be a detriment to you applying.

I would spread my apps (if I were you) between some LACs, some ivies/ivy tier and maybe one or two unis with solid merit scholarship schemes.

I've been super vested in the whole US uni thing for ages now, but no. Initially, I applied to a couple elite US boarding schools and got in (also applied to UWC, got in too but couldn't afford it) but decided not to go. Took the SAT early and got ~2250, applied to various university run summer programmes and got into: one run by Yale, one run by MIT (chose this) and one run by Wharton. And on top of that, the people I've met at that programme asked me for advice on the process etc plus school friends here and prior school friends from my old school too. Quite a lot of them have done pretty well.

I didn't apply for US unis because my previous teachers basically refused to write me a reference (until Warwick threatened them to lol) for any of my uni plans as I'm self teaching now and supposedly am no longer a part of the school. A.k.a unsubstantiated BS.

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Oh wow congratulations on that SAT score you must be really smart! I didn't know about these summer programmes? Oh well just missed opportunities.

Sorry that your school was so annoying. Is it all working out now?
Original post by ♥Samantha♥
Oh wow congratulations on that SAT score you must be really smart! I didn't know about these summer programmes? Oh well just missed opportunities.

Sorry that your school was so annoying. Is it all working out now?


Thanks! Yeah, there are a couple out there: MIT Launch (what I did), RSI, Yale Young Global Scholars, Leadership in the Business World at Wharton, Summer @Brown, Telluride Association etc.. Most people do them in the summers between year 11 and year 12 and year 12 and year 13. They're quite competitive though, most have 10-15% acceptance rates or lower.

Yeah, I got offers from Warwick, Notts, UCL and Bristol and a rejection from Oxford. Firmed Warwick and insured Bristol :smile:



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Original post by Maker
If they select the kids of rich people, its not very surprising if they also become rich is it? But its interesting you admit Harvard is not a meritocracy.


It isn't always because the people who go there are from wealthy families. It's the networking environment in Harvard. If most of a student's peers are wealthy (even if said student isn't), the student has the chance to form connections to those who can bankroll start up companies. It's like giving a toddler a stacked deck - if they are driven enough (and most Harvard applicants are), they will perform well. Boston in itself is an area favorable for startups, which puts Harvard in a good position.

The secondary school I went to is full of kids of upper management. At least a few were children, or related, to business tycoons. The students network there, and once they enter the business world, they have a lot of resources at hand, either through doors their family has opened up, or through their own friends.
Original post by Princepieman
Thanks! I got offers from Warwick, Notts, UCL and Bristol and a rejection from Oxford. Firmed Warwick and insured Bristol :smile:

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I want to do linguistics for post grad @ Harvard but I don't know how to flipping apply (I know you apply directly to Uni) yet I can't find anything on the website and its soooo confusing - they are so u helpful when you email them as well i.e. You can find information at https://www.wehavenotansweredyourquestion.cuz.wedontknow/theanswer/either! Do you have a link to the linguistics thing for Harvard?
Original post by patricio_miguel
I want to do linguistics for post grad @ Harvard but I don't know how to flipping apply (I know you apply directly to Uni) yet I can't find anything on the website and its soooo confusing - they are so u helpful when you email them as well i.e. You can find information at https://www.wehavenotansweredyourquestion.cuz.wedontknow/theanswer/either! Do you have a link to the linguistics thing for Harvard?


http://linguistics.fas.harvard.edu/pages/graduate

Seems they only have PhDs on offer*
Original post by Princepieman
http://linguistics.fas.harvard.edu/pages/graduate

Seems they only have PhDs on offer*


Apparently you apply to the uni as a whole rather than a specific subject? What kind of crap system is that?
Original post by patricio_miguel
Apparently you apply to the uni as a whole rather than a specific subject? What kind of crap system is that?


Only for undergrad, not postgrad

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To the student expecting 2 or 3 A*s who got into Warwick and is thinking of applying to Harvard. You could take a gap year and apply to 5-10 top US schools. There is an excellent chance you won't get in where you want though, and you may be rejected everywhere if you apply only to top schools. If your AS levels and GSCEs are not as good, probably don't bother, as they have a lot more weight for US schools. You need to do real well on the ACT or SAT and 3 SAT subject tests, which are similar to ASs. You also need to have something that looks like OK ECs. If a lot of your problem was your A-levels were in unrelated subjects, that is a plus for US schools, so more reason to try it then. Of course you need to have funds for US schools.

To the student applying to Harvard graduate school, again if you are serious about it, you should apply to several US schools. US graduate admissions is similar to the UK approach to undergraduate admissions. Getting into Harvard graduate school is general significantly harder than getting into Oxbridge. http://www.phds.org/rankings I would check out this site with rankings of programs. Often state schools show up high on the list. The general reputation of the university is also important: Princeton or whatever is still really competitive even if it isn't ranked that high for that department. However, the rankings are worth looking at. Obviously, see if you like the programs described on the schools' sites.
I'm pretty sure that the costs of going to Harvard will be significantly more expensive than any UK university, so bare that in mind (or at least your parent's mind)

P.S
A student in my school got 11A*'s at GCSE and 4A*'s at A level, with a really high grade in violin was rejected from all of the US universities that he applied to. (was accepted at Cambridge too)
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Marshall Taylor
I'm pretty sure that the costs of going to Harvard will be significantly more expensive than any UK university, so bare that in mind (or at least your parent's mind)

P.S
A student in my school got 11A*'s at GCSE and 4A*'s at A level, with a really high grade in violin was rejected from all of the US universities that he applied to. (was accepted at Cambridge too)


Not necessarily, it's only more expensive if your parents earn more than ~$170k+ a year. For everyone else, it ranges from free of charge to like sub $15k because of financial aid.

High grades aren't a guarantee for admission. I know someone with lower grades than that but better achievements who got in.

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If you are applying to Harvard and your parents earn less than $65K a year, you pay $0 - stop saying you need the funds, please as you're misleading many people.
Yeh, but it is hard to get all A*s from the schools you would be going to and so on with $65K income in the UK. They are also not need blind for international applicants. They may have like 3 full need-based scholarships from the UK at Harvard, and the same number of spots for Eton. For many countries, most middle class people are under $65K, but you have basically all the top students in the country competing for a few scholarship spots. If your parents do have a decent income in the UK, it will also cost you way more than domestic schools.
Original post by mathplustutornj
Yeh, but it is hard to get all A*s from the schools you would be going to and so on with $65K income in the UK. They are also not need blind for international applicants. They may have like 3 full need-based scholarships from the UK at Harvard, and the same number of spots for Eton. For many countries, most middle class people are under $65K, but you have basically all the top students in the country competing for a few scholarship spots. If your parents do have a decent income in the UK, it will also cost you way more than domestic schools.


They are need blind for all.

This analysis is really just getting out of hand tbh. Harvard caps contributions to 10% of familial income sub a household income of ~$150-160k a year. Given the wealth distribution of the UK, it's unlikely many applicants will be above that mark.

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Original post by mathplustutornj
Yeh, but it is hard to get all A*s from the schools you would be going to and so on with $65K income in the UK. They are also not need blind for international applicants. They may have like 3 full need-based scholarships from the UK at Harvard, and the same number of spots for Eton. For many countries, most middle class people are under $65K, but you have basically all the top students in the country competing for a few scholarship spots. If your parents do have a decent income in the UK, it will also cost you way more than domestic schools.

Harvard is one of 5 schools in the US (MIT, Amherst, Princeton, Yale being the other 4) which offer need blind admission to everyone

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