The Student Room Group

A Summer of Maths (ASoM) 2016

Scroll to see replies

Reply 280
Original post by EnglishMuon
huh? yeah thats wat I did for the first bit. So wat about the 2nd?


Oh ffs, I didn't even read your question properly. (Sorry!!) :tongue: Try induction on nn to show that transpositions of the form (1 a) can be written as product of transpositions of the form (k, k+1).

(1 2) is of both forms, so that's okay. Assume (1 k) can be written as a product of transpositions of the form (m m+1) then the identity (1 k)(k, k+1)(1 k) = (1 k+1) completes the induction.
Original post by Zacken
Oh ffs, I didn't even read your question properly. (Sorry!!) :tongue: Try induction on nn to show that transpositions of the form (1 a) can be written as product of transpositions of the form (k, k+1).

(1 2) is of both forms, so that's okay. Assume (1 k) can be written as a product of transpositions of the form (m m+1) then the identity (1 k)(k, k+1)(1 k) = (1 k+1) completes the induction.


ah ok thanks! and yea I kept misreading the lines as theyre similar so np :tongue:
Babshshshabsmsm


Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by drandy76
Babshshshabsmsm

Posted from TSR Mobile


I know...

How are you doing? Things going OK?
Original post by EricPiphany
I know...

How are you doing? Things going OK?


Bit drunk tbh


Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by drandy76


OK, good on ya.
Original post by EricPiphany
OK, good on ya.


Got s group related question, will ask when I remember mate


Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by drandy76
Got s group related question, will ask when I remember mate


Posted from TSR Mobile


K, I doubt I'll be able to do it though, coz I haven't put pen to paper w.r.t. GT yet. Ask me anyways :smile:
Original post by EricPiphany
K, I doubt I'll be able to do it though, coz I haven't put pen to paper w.r.t. GT yet. Ask me anyways :smile:


I do mental notes anyway so neither have I tbh, it was either dihedral groups of homomorphism/iso


Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by drandy76
I do mental notes anyway so neither have I tbh, it was either dihedral groups of homomorphism/iso


Posted from TSR Mobile


Cool
Original post by EricPiphany
Cool


Turns out it was both, I'm not fully convinced of the fact that S3 group is an isomorphism of the D3 group even after looking at the Cayley table, or rather I'm not entirely sure what I'm meant to be noticing between the permutations between the two groups that allows me to identify them as isomorphic


Posted from TSR Mobile
Reply 291
Original post by drandy76
Turns out it was both, I'm not fully convinced of the fact that S3 group is an isomorphism of the D3 group even after looking at the Cayley table, or rather I'm not entirely sure what I'm meant to be noticing between the permutations between the two groups that allows me to identify them as isomorphic


Posted from TSR Mobile


Each symmetry in D(n), the symmetry group of the regular n-sided polygon, is just a permutation of the vertices numbered {1,2,...,n} where the relative 'spacing' between the vertices is conserved. For example, 2 must be in between 1 and 3, and 1 must be in between 2 and n. From this you can immediately conclude that D(n) is isomorphic to a subgroup of S(n); in particular, D(n) is isomorphic to the subgroup of S(n) in which this relative 'spacing' is conserved.

With S(3), it turns out that this spacing is always conserved with any of the 3! permutations of {1,2,3}; 1 is always between 2 and 3, 2 always between 1 and 3, and 3 always between 1 and 2. This is precisely (isomorphic to) D(3)!


Another interesting observation, that can be made from a very high-level point of view, is that if m divides n, then D(m), the group of symmetries of the regular m-polygon, is (isomorphic to) a subgroup of D(n). For example the symmetries of a triangle are contained within the symmetries of a hexagon. Why? (Draw a hexagon and find a triangle within it.)


Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Ecasx
Each symmetry in D(n), the symmetry group of the regular n-sided polygon, is just a permutation of the vertices numbered {1,2,...,n} where the relative 'spacing' between the vertices is conserved. For example, 2 must be in between 1 and 3, and 1 must be in between 2 and n. From this you can immediately conclude that D(n) is isomorphic to a subgroup of S(n); in particular, D(n) is isomorphic to the subgroup of S(n) in which this relative 'spacing' is conserved.

With S(3), it turns out that this spacing is always conserved with any of the 3! permutations of {1,2,3}; 1 is always between 2 and 3, 2 always between 1 and 3, and 3 always between 1 and 2. This is precisely (isomorphic to) D(3)!


Another interesting observation, that can be made from a very high-level point of view, is that if m divides n, then D(m), the group of symmetries of the regular m-polygon, is (isomorphic to) a subgroup of D(n). For example the symmetries of a triangle are contained within the symmetries of a hexagon. Why? (Draw a hexagon and find a triangle within it.)


Posted from TSR Mobile


Ahh I see thanks, was missing the idea of the conservation of relative spacing, would I be correct in saying that this isomorphism only holds when n=3, or is there more overlap in cases where the order of Dn doesn't equal 2n( not sure if this is an identity or it's something that happens most of the time)


Posted from TSR Mobile
Reply 293
Original post by drandy76
Ahh I see thanks, was missing the idea of the conservation of relative spacing, would I be correct in saying that this isomorphism only holds when n=3, or is there more overlap in cases where the order of Dn doesn't equal 2n( not sure if this is an identity or it's something that happens most of the time)


Posted from TSR Mobile


The order of D(n) is always 2n.

You can confirm this by first understanding that each 'symmetry' of the n-polygon (a rotation, reflection, or combination of both) conserves this relative spacing. Vertex 1 can be moved to any of n places, and then vertex 2 has two possible places adjacent to vertex 1. After this, vertex 3 is fixed (it is in the other place adjacent to vertex 1), and then every other vertex is fixed. So we have an upper bound of 2n when counting the number of symmetries of the n-polygon.

Your next task should be to confirm that all possible 2n symmetries (again, symmetries are just permutations of vertices which conserve this relative spacing) are indeed achievable via rotations and reflections. Once you do this you prove that the order of D(n) is 2n.


Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Ecasx
Each symmetry in D(n), the symmetry group of the regular n-sided polygon, is just a permutation of the vertices numbered {1,2,...,n} where the relative 'spacing' between the vertices is conserved. For example, 2 must be in between 1 and 3, and 1 must be in between 2 and n. From this you can immediately conclude that D(n) is isomorphic to a subgroup of S(n); in particular, D(n) is isomorphic to the subgroup of S(n) in which this relative 'spacing' is conserved.

With S(3), it turns out that this spacing is always conserved with any of the 3! permutations of {1,2,3}; 1 is always between 2 and 3, 2 always between 1 and 3, and 3 always between 1 and 2. This is precisely (isomorphic to) D(3)!


Another interesting observation, that can be made from a very high-level point of view, is that if m divides n, then D(m), the group of symmetries of the regular m-polygon, is (isomorphic to) a subgroup of D(n). For example the symmetries of a triangle are contained within the symmetries of a hexagon. Why? (Draw a hexagon and find a triangle within it.)


Posted from TSR Mobile


Polygons and triangles.
2006 Q6 IMO.
Unparseable latex formula:

det(D) = \left| \begin{array}{ccc}1 & 1 & 1 \\a & b & c & a^2 & b^2 & c^2 \end{array} \right| = 0 \\ \\[br] [br]\therefore (b - c)(c - a)(a - b) = 0



Is there any nice way to deal with the factorisation of the determinant of D? The textbook method uses EROs to change the 1s to 0s in the rightmost two columns:

det(D)=100abacaa2b2a2c2a2=(ba)(ca)100a11a2b+ac+adet(D) = \left| \begin{array}{ccc} 1 & 0 & 0 \\a & b - a & c - a & a^2 & b^2 - a^2 & c^2 - a^2 \end{array} \right| = (b - a)(c - a)\left| \begin{array}{ccc} 1 & 0 & 0 \\a & 1 & 1 & a^2 & b + a & c + a \end{array} \right|

But this method isn't really obvious to me, I tried just working with the determinant as it comes so I end up with:

Unparseable latex formula:

\left| \begin{array}{cc} b & c & b^2 & c^2 \end{array} \right| - \left| \begin{array}{cc} a & c & a^2 & c^2 \end{array} \right| + \left| \begin{array}{cc} a & b & a^2 & b^2 \end{array} \right| = 0 \\ \\[br][br]\therefore bc^2 - cb^2 - ac^2 + ca^2 + ab^2 - ba^2 = 0



But can't figure out how to factorise that, at least not without seeing the answer already.

Is there a good technique for spotting factorisations like that? @physicsmaths
Reply 296
Original post by Euclidean
But can't figure out how to factorise that, at least not without seeing the answer already.


Well, you certainly took the painful way through the problem, row reduction works better. But anywho, it's not hard, looking at the polynomial, to guess that b=cb=c is a solution, and indeed:

c3c3ac2+ca2+ac2ca2=0c^3 - c^3 - ac^2 + ca^2 + ac^2 - ca^2 = 0, so by symmetry c=ac=a and b=ab=a are also solutions, given that the polynomial has a highest power of a2,b2,c2a^2, b^2, c^2 then (ba)(bc)(ca)=0(b-a)(b-c)(c-a) = 0 is the only possible factorisation (since the coefficients are all 1).

In fact, a rather harder version of this sort of technique comes up in STEP II 2016 Q2.
Original post by Zacken
Well, you certainly took the painful way through the problem, row reduction works better. But anywho, it's not hard, looking at the polynomial, to guess that b=cb=c is a solution, and indeed:

c3c3ac2+ca2+ac2ca2=0c^3 - c^3 - ac^2 + ca^2 + ac^2 - ca^2 = 0, so by symmetry c=ac=a and b=ab=a are also solutions, given that the polynomial has a highest power of a2,b2,c2a^2, b^2, c^2 then (ba)(bc)(ca)=0(b-a)(b-c)(c-a) = 0 is the only possible factorisation (since the coefficients are all 1).

In fact, a rather harder version of this sort of technique comes up in STEP II 2016 Q2.


**** that question


Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Euclidean
Unparseable latex formula:

det(D) = \left| \begin{array}{ccc}1 & 1 & 1 \\a & b & c & a^2 & b^2 & c^2 \end{array} \right| = 0 \\ \\[br] [br]\therefore (b - c)(c - a)(a - b) = 0



Is there any nice way to deal with the factorisation of the determinant of D? The textbook method uses EROs to change the 1s to 0s in the rightmost two columns:

det(D)=100abacaa2b2a2c2a2=(ba)(ca)100a11a2b+ac+adet(D) = \left| \begin{array}{ccc} 1 & 0 & 0 \\a & b - a & c - a & a^2 & b^2 - a^2 & c^2 - a^2 \end{array} \right| = (b - a)(c - a)\left| \begin{array}{ccc} 1 & 0 & 0 \\a & 1 & 1 & a^2 & b + a & c + a \end{array} \right|

But this method isn't really obvious to me, I tried just working with the determinant as it comes so I end up with:

Unparseable latex formula:

\left| \begin{array}{cc} b & c & b^2 & c^2 \end{array} \right| - \left| \begin{array}{cc} a & c & a^2 & c^2 \end{array} \right| + \left| \begin{array}{cc} a & b & a^2 & b^2 \end{array} \right| = 0 \\ \\[br][br]\therefore bc^2 - cb^2 - ac^2 + ca^2 + ab^2 - ba^2 = 0



But can't figure out how to factorise that, at least not without seeing the answer already.

Is there a good technique for spotting factorisations like that? @physicsmaths


Maybe think of it in a factor theorem kind of way. With expressions like these which are kind of repetitive/have a bit of symmetry going on you can check what happens if you make two of the letters equal. e.g. if you set b = c you get b^3 - b^3 -ab^2 + ba^2 + ab^2 - ba^2 = 0 Then you can divide by b - c. Besides unless the question asks for factorised form there's no need to factorise. You could also note that you have bc(c-b) + a^2(c-b) + a(b^2 - c^2) | Note to self: Don't leave maths pages like these open and then not check that someone has replied lol
(edited 7 years ago)
Does anyone have any tips on how to write proofs to something that seems obvious? For example q5 page 21 of Beardon:

Let the order of X be N
I just started off with supposing (a) is true so f(x)=f(x)x=x f(x' )=f(x) \Rightarrow x'=x so there are atleast N different elements in our image set (as at most 1 x value maps to each element in image set). But our image set is once again X with N elements, so it seem pretty clear each element maps to only 1 different image element so the function is one-to-one. it is therefore both injective and surjective so bijective.

But to me this seems clunky and too wordy, how should I write it properly?

Quick Reply

Latest