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Scotland can't do referendums any time they want

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It would be a difficult argument to make... That Scotland is so keen to have unfettered trade with the EU that it should swap the barriers it will have from an area with a smaller percentage of its total trade, against thr totally unfettered access it has with an area that accounts for a huge amount of its total trade.*

The irony is that the worse off we are from Brexit the less Scottish independence makes sense.
(edited 7 years ago)
I see the TSR is full of the usual anti- Scottish rhetoric. Well Scotland will have its referendum and we will leave UK. And yes we did not accept the result of the last referendum for very good reasons which I think people on here are incapable of understanding. However one thing I will point out. The anti-Scottish ropaganda during our referendum was one based on lies and distortions. Only by remaining in UK could we guarantee our place in Europe. That was one of the big lies that was spun to scare the elderly into voting No. That and the loss of their pensions. Our oil was running out ( most folk can work out 100% of oil at £50 a barrel is worth a heck of a lot more than the current 8% Scotland receives). A few days after the BBC announces a massive oil filed identified off Shetland (it's existence was well known in certain circles however Cameron's not so secret visit just before the referendum resulted in silence in the press. Lies, lies and more lies spewed forth from WM. And because of this the Scottish question is not sorted and what's more it never will be till the butchers apron is banished from our country. The majority of Scots detest WM and everything it stands for. The fact is England needs Scotland more than we need it. England and by that I mean your government, is a leech that sucks the lifeblood of every other nation it gets its dirty tentacles into. Scotland is an extraordinarily wealthy nation and we By a resounding majority reject a future of jackbooted, little Englander knucklegraggers which seems to be the preferred way forward south of the border. To the bawheid that said we aren't a nation - shut up and don't show your ignorance and prejudice publicly. And to the one fed up of our whining, we're not whining, we're bawling at you - gtf!
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by paul514
So you think more than 10% of people voted for those words?

Peace - nato

Democracy - have a laugh elected representatives cants initiate legislation and there are people we can't elect or get rid of.

Human rights - this is British law any change in those rights needs to be debated and voted on.

Funding - we currently pay 10.6 billion more in than we get out of the eu funding can continue.

All the above are just crap

Union and stability - in what sense? Union just sounds like a platitude.

Stability would come straight back with an efta deal that's the single market.

You failed to come up with anything serious that wouldn't be solved by an efta deal


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Your answers are all about ways in which you think Remain voters in Scotland relate to membership of the EU. I don't agree with your assessments on even a single one of those issues. If you still haven't even come remotely close to nullifying my concerns about leaving the EU then how can you assert that you had nullified the concerns of over a million Scottish Remain voters after your previous post?
Original post by DougallnDougall
I see the TSR is full of the usual anti- Scottish rhetoric.


Aside from a few trolls, point out some examples.


Well Scotland will have its referendum and we will leave UK. And yes we did not accept the result of the last referendum for very good reasons which I think people on here are incapable of understanding.


People here are too thick to understand your contempt for democracy?


However one thing I will point out. The anti-Scottish ropaganda during our referendum was one based on lies and distortions.


Whereas, of course, the SNP were a beacon of truth, and certainly never had to go to court or anything to try to keep their lies secret.


Only by remaining in UK could we guarantee our place in Europe. That was one of the big lies that was spun to scare the elderly into voting No.


Given that in the EU referendum campaign, the elderly were more likely to vote Leave, I don't think you've thought this through (in fact this applies to your entire post). I think you're just desperate to smear everything you can as lies.


That and the loss of their pensions.


It's far less burden for a state of 60 million plus people to support pensions than a less wealthy state of circa 5 million. Given that we have an ageing population, this was rightly a concern.

Our oil was running out ( most folk can work out 100% of oil at £50 a barrel is worth a heck of a lot more than the current 8% Scotland receives).


... But 100% of the price of a barrel of oil is not returned to the treasury ...


A few days after the BBC announces a massive oil filed identified off Shetland (it's existence was well known in certain circles however Cameron's not so secret visit just before the referendum resulted in silence in the press.


Name it.


Lies, lies and more lies spewed forth from WM. And because of this the Scottish question is not sorted and what's more it never will be till the butchers apron is banished from our country.


Comedy.


The majority of Scots detest WM and everything it stands for.


Source.


The fact is England needs Scotland more than we need it.


Comedy, and source.


England and by that I mean your government, is a leech that sucks the lifeblood of every other nation it gets its dirty tentacles into.


I think you're meant to try to not post your Anglophobia in the first place, not correct yourself.


Scotland is an extraordinarily wealthy nation and we By a resounding majority reject a future of jackbooted, little Englander knucklegraggers which seems to be the preferred way forward south of the border. To the bawheid that said we aren't a nation - shut up and don't show your ignorance and prejudice publicly. And to the one fed up of our whining, we're not whining, we're bawling at you - gtf!


If I was trying to caricature an extremist nationalist I would have struggled to come up with a more fitting end to this post myself.
Original post by DougallnDougall
I see the TSR is full of the usual anti- Scottish rhetoric. Well Scotland will have its referendum and we will leave UK. And yes we did not accept the result of the last referendum for very good reasons which I think people on here are incapable of understanding. However one thing I will point out. The anti-Scottish ropaganda during our referendum was one based on lies and distortions. Only by remaining in UK could we guarantee our place in Europe. That was one of the big lies that was spun to scare the elderly into voting No. That and the loss of their pensions. Our oil was running out ( most folk can work out 100% of oil at £50 a barrel is worth a heck of a lot more than the current 8% Scotland receives). A few days after the BBC announces a massive oil filed identified off Shetland (it's existence was well known in certain circles however Cameron's not so secret visit just before the referendum resulted in silence in the press. Lies, lies and more lies spewed forth from WM. And because of this the Scottish question is not sorted and what's more it never will be till the butchers apron is banished from our country. The majority of Scots detest WM and everything it stands for. The fact is England needs Scotland more than we need it. England and by that I mean your government, is a leech that sucks the lifeblood of every other nation it gets its dirty tentacles into. Scotland is an extraordinarily wealthy nation and we By a resounding majority reject a future of jackbooted, little Englander knucklegraggers which seems to be the preferred way forward south of the border. To the bawheid that said we aren't a nation - shut up and don't show your ignorance and prejudice publicly. And to the one fed up of our whining, we're not whining, we're bawling at you - gtf!


Explain how you can hold another referendum without westminster consent.


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Original post by offhegoes
Your answers are all about ways in which you think Remain voters in Scotland relate to membership of the EU. I don't agree with your assessments on even a single one of those issues. If you still haven't even come remotely close to nullifying my concerns about leaving the EU then how can you assert that you had nullified the concerns of over a million Scottish Remain voters after your previous post?


Yes because that is the fact of why people voted remain on mass. Single market and free travel for themselves.

You came up with a list of complete crap to think that even 10% of remain voters were genuinely concerned by those points.




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Original post by DougallnDougall
Our oil was running out ( most folk can work out 100% of oil at £50 a barrel is worth a heck of a lot more than the current 8% Scotland receives).


It is obvious that you have not been keeping yourself up to date with the oil revenue situation. The SNP predicted revenue of £7.5 billion; it is now running at £130 million.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34926904
Simple solution - give the Scots a second referendum.

It will show that the SNP are contemptuous of democracy as the Scottish people want to remain in the Union, so they will vote to stay in the Union.

Fair?
Original post by Good bloke
It is obvious that you have not been keeping yourself up to date with the oil revenue situation. The SNP predicted revenue of £7.5 billion; it is now running at £130 million.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34926904


That's 1400 pounds per year of extra tax's or borrowing for every man, woman or child.

If that number were to be calculated for just the people who work that would be far higher


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Original post by MagicNMedicine
Simple solution - give the Scots a second referendum.

It will show that the SNP are contemptuous of democracy as the Scottish people want to remain in the Union, so they will vote to stay in the Union.

Fair?


We don't need to worry about fair they had a vote for a generation in 2014.

The end


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Original post by RoyalMarine
They voted to remain in the UK so they're not a free and independent nation. They voted to remain in the UK and having a small population it means the English rule on Scotland. If they voted for independence then they would have the right to join the EU. The English will concede a new referendum in 2036. Till then, 'Better Together' :biggrin:


Scotland's loss lol, Spain and France would block EU entry so empty threats
Original post by paul514
Yes because that is the fact of why people voted remain on mass. Single market and free travel for themselves.

You came up with a list of complete crap to think that even 10% of remain voters were genuinely concerned by those points.
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What makes you think you know what Remain voters in Scotland think?
Original post by offhegoes
What makes you think you know what Remain voters in Scotland think?


I read and watch 4 hours of politics a day.

What makes you think I'm wrong other than your own personal opinion


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Original post by paul514
I read and watch 4 hours of politics a day.

What makes you think I'm wrong other than your own personal opinion


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Because for a start I am a Remain voter in Scotland. I also live with one. Our friends mostly are Remain voters in Scotland. I work with around 40 people who are also Remain voters in Scotland. Ditto for my partner. Ditto her family, mostly. I follow the articles and discussions from diverse range of Scottish politics-related groups on a very regular basis.

Very few of the people I encounter on a daily basis, if any, would consider their arguments for remaining in the EU 'nullified' by your points.
Original post by offhegoes
Because for a start I am a Remain voter in Scotland. I also live with one. Our friends mostly are Remain voters in Scotland. I work with around 40 people who are also Remain voters in Scotland. Ditto for my partner. Ditto her family, mostly. I follow the articles and discussions from diverse range of Scottish politics-related groups on a very regular basis.

Very few of the people I encounter on a daily basis, if any, would consider their arguments for remaining in the EU 'nullified' by your points.


So your evidence is your social and work crowd.

Great sample.


Anyone else want to chip in and agree with him?

Name an issue outside single market access and free travel that a tenth of remain voters cared about


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Original post by paul514
So your evidence is your social and work crowd.

Great sample.


Anyone else want to chip in and agree with him?

Name an issue outside single market access and free travel that a tenth of remain voters cared about


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I already did. You because you disagree with me doesn't make me incorrect.

Unless you have evidence to support your assertation that those things are all Scottish voters care about then just admit you're speculating. I don't pretend to have a firm grasp on what over a million Remain voters in Scotland think, I just know you don't have the knowledge to support your massive oversimplification of their views.
Original post by offhegoes
I already did. You because you disagree with me doesn't make me incorrect.

Unless you have evidence to support your assertation that those things are all Scottish voters care about then just admit you're speculating. I don't pretend to have a firm grasp on what over a million Remain voters in Scotland think, I just know you don't have the knowledge to support your massive oversimplification of their views.


Assertion off the basis of knowledge


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Original post by paul514
Assertion off the basis of knowledge


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Because you saw it said so on TV? You read it online?

Sources for this 'knowledge'?
Original post by offhegoes
Because you saw it said so on TV? You read it online?

Sources for this 'knowledge'?


Various politics programs with various commentators on them and a very wide variety of politics and news websites.

I don't just watch one thing for 15 minutes one day and think I know it all. We are talking 30 hours a week here for 6/7 years. That's 25% of the time I'm awake


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Original post by paul514
Various politics programs with various commentators on them and a very wide variety of politics and news websites.

I don't just watch one thing for 15 minutes one day and think I know it all. We are talking 30 hours a week here for 6/7 years. That's 25% of the time I'm awake


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And is this in connection to your job? Your education?

Still waiting on sources.

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