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Post-referendum situation is looking increasingly undemocratic and unconstitutional

Parliament nowadays has to approve wars, even 'small' ones, like the bombing of ISIL targets in Syria.

Yet the retiring Cameron position is to put the Cabinet Secretary in charge of it and carry it out essentially in secret.

Parliament must, must be the approving chamber before Article 50 can be invoked. Yet many in the Tory Party are acting as though this is already a done deal.

When Theresa May comes in to office, she must state right away that this will eventually go to Parliament and put back to the people if necessary.

If she doesn't say this, effectively, we will all know that our constitution as it stands has come to an end and British democracy is dead. The natural recourse of the people in that situation is insurrection and, if necessary, civil war.

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Reply 1
The "discuss" is implied, right?

Not something Parliament needs to do for two reasons:

Prerogative power of the Crown can be used by the PM.

No government in the UK has ever gone against a referendum.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Mimir
The "discuss" is implied, right?


Of course. :yep: :colondollar:
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Parliament nowadays has to approve wars, even 'small' ones, like the bombing of ISIL targets in Syria.

Yet the retiring Cameron position is to put the Cabinet Secretary in charge of it and carry it out essentially in secret.

Parliament must, must be the approving chamber before Article 50 can be invoked. Yet many in the Tory Party are acting as though this is already a done deal.

When Theresa May comes in to office, she must state right away that this will eventually go to Parliament and put back to the people if necessary.

If she doesn't say this, effectively, we will all know that our constitution as it stands has come to an end and British democracy is dead. The natural recourse of the people in that situation is insurrection and, if necessary, civil war.


The Tory Party are acting as though it's a "done deal" because the majority of the British people voted in order to leave the European Union, by a margin exceeding more than one million votes. If the triggering of Article 50 were to go into parliament, should any MPs choose to go against the democratic will of the nation, that would be both undemocratic and unconstitutional. A civil war occurs in places like Syria and Libya where their own people have been subject to oppression, dictatorship and manipulation. A civil war won't occur in Britain because Article 50 didn't go through parliament.
Original post by jake4198
The Tory Party are acting as though it's a "done deal" because the majority of the British people voted in order to leave the European Union, by a margin exceeding more than one million votes. If the triggering of Article 50 were to go into parliament, should any MPs choose to go against the democratic will of the nation, that would be both undemocratic and unconstitutional. A civil war occurs in places like Syria and Libya where their own people have been subject to oppression, dictatorship and manipulation. A civil war won't occur in Britain because Article 50 didn't go through parliament.


If the government are ignoring law, Parliament and constitution, then what recourse is left other than extra-parliamentary action?
The people have spoken!
Original post by Fullofsurprises
If the government are ignoring law, Parliament and constitution, then what recourse is left other than extra-parliamentary action?


There would be more uproar if the decision to trigger Article 50 went through parliament and it was denied, than there would if Article 50 did not go through parliament and it was triggered. Regardless of how the proceedings ensue, I would expect that parliament would respect the democratic will of the people and vote entirely in favour of leaving the European Union.
Original post by Grand High Witch
The people have spoken!


The 'people' were lied to repeatedly.
It would be nice if people were capable of understanding that when more people vote for one thing than another it is perfectly democratic for that things to be done, democracy means rule of the people, not "do what I don't because otherwise I'll have a tantrum"
Reply 9
Original post by Mimir
The "discuss" is implied, right?

Not something Parliament needs to do for two reasons:

Prerogative power of the Crown can be used by the PM.

No government in the UK has ever gone against a referendum.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_devolution_referendum,_1979

No problem there though when it suits.
Original post by Jammy Duel
It would be nice if people were capable of understanding that when more people vote for one thing than another it is perfectly democratic for that things to be done, democracy means rule of the people, not "do what I don't because otherwise I'll have a tantrum"


Do you apply that to union membership when voting to strike?
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
Do you apply that to union membership when voting to strike?


Yes, I think they're idiots who seem to like losing money, but if they vote to strike, especially with that rare high turnout, they are within their rights to

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Original post by Fullofsurprises

Parliament must, must be the approving chamber before Article 50 can be invoked. Yet many in the Tory Party are acting as though this is already a done deal.


So what exactly is your beef. The fact that government ministers seem to be happy to invoke the democratic will of the people, or the fact that parliament won't exert its democratic right not to exercise the democratic will of the people?

I hate it too, but the sooner we get over the fact that we are going to leave Europe and move on, the better. Whittering on about democracy is a complete waste of time. We don't live in a true democracy and never have. My vote counts for nothing most of the time.
Original post by FredOrJohn
ByEeek, you are now UKIP . You are fighting for what they want. You are now part of the problem not the solution...


You really aren't going to win the argument if the best you can come up with is to ridicule me.

I have no idea about Switzerland but Scotland were promised (by the leaders of the three main political parties) that if they wished to remain in Europe, they should vote to remain part of the UK. That was the deal on the table and they accepted it. Things have changed. They can justifiably call a new referendum on that basis alone. They haven't yet though, so right now it is a none argument.

Could you please answer me a very simple question - what is the point in having a free vote, if the losing side get to nullify the vote because they believe the returned outcome to be "wrong"? You can't keep holding referendums until the "correct" result is returned. It doesn't work like that.
Reply 14


Interesting...

Result yes 52:48 but below 40% electorate threshold. So Act was repealed.

EUref Leave 52:48. Leave also below 40% of electorate. So....

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(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by ByEeek
You really aren't going to win the argument if the best you can come up with is to ridicule me.

I have no idea about Switzerland but Scotland were promised (by the leaders of the three main political parties) that if they wished to remain in Europe, they should vote to remain part of the UK. That was the deal on the table and they accepted it. Things have changed. They can justifiably call a new referendum on that basis alone. They haven't yet though, so right now it is a none argument.

Could you please answer me a very simple question - what is the point in having a free vote, if the losing side get to nullify the vote because they believe the returned outcome to be "wrong"? You can't keep holding referendums until the "correct" result is returned. It doesn't work like that.


ByEeek - just read a bit more before you start joining UKIP
http://www.euractiv.com/section/social-europe-jobs/news/eu-relations-to-be-put-to-swiss-voters-again-president-says/
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Fullofsurprises
The 'people' were lied to repeatedly.


As were they were by remain. Notably by Ruth Davidson stating that Andrea Leadsom's values of 60% were lies, they were later checked to be 59%.
Original post by Grand High Witch
The people have spoken!


Yeah but they spoke a load of absolute *******s.
Original post by physicsphysics91
As were they were by remain. Notably by Ruth Davidson stating that Andrea Leadsom's values of 60% were lies, they were later checked to be 59%.
*

Not really.*

The 60% figure includes non-legislative regulations and etc.

An example of that in the UK would be the GMC changing regulations for Doctors.*
**
If you want to be fair then you should go through all of the regulations made by every public body in the UK and include that in the figure.

Obviously, no one will do that because that is stupid. *
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by DorianGrayism
*

Not really.*

The 60% figure includes non-legislative regulations and etc.

An example of that in the UK would be the GMC changing regulations for Doctors.*
**
If you want to be fair then you should go through all of the regulations made by every public body in the UK and include that in the figure.

Obviously, no one will do that because that is stupid. *


So what exactly is a "non legislative regulation," regulations are necessarily legislative

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