Don't know whether to become Shia
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Original post by Zamestaneh
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Original post by King7
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https://whoaretheshia.com/2018/06/22/did-imam-ali-name-his-son-abu-bakr/
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by mariachi
lessee... as far as I know, you should start praying three times a day (instead of five)
This is not the case. Many shia's seperate their prayers , but we believe that one is also permitted to combine Zuhr and Asr, and Maghrib and Isha, and this is often thus commonly done for ease of the Ummah. I seperate my prayers on many occasions and combine them on many occasions.
and then, start waiting for the 12th imam to come out of occultation....
Even sunni muslims are waiting for the Mahdi, who to a number is the twelfth of the 12 caliphs prophecised by the Prophet s.a.w, though not the twelfth imam a.s of the ahlulbayt asws of Muhammed s.a.w
in the meantime, start imitating some grand ayatollah (marjah'
: a list of them here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_Maraji
best
: a list of them here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_Maraji best
Yes, and i believe this is one of the strengths of shia Islam. Following a scholar who has spent decades studying, and decades after that doing further study, of whom only a special few are granted the ability to be emulated or choose that path.
(edited 7 years ago)
Salamunalaykum! Eid Mubarak brother!
If you refer to the post i have shown earlier, i conclusively prove that Abubakr Ibn Ali was not named that as a name by his father, Ali ibn abi Talib a.s, and rather still at that point in time, it was a Qunya.
With due respect, i believe your use of fallible/infallible is more aimed at in a sense, word play, than anything else. The son of Adam pbuh, and the son of Nuh, pbuh, both sons came from pure fathers, and were astray. Abu Bakr, the son of Ali , however, did not necessarily have to be 'pure' simply due to his father either. However, may Allah azwj be pleased with him, for he was a brave matyr, who layed out his life to defend Hussain a.s, on the plains of Kerbala, against the forces of the handpicked son of Muawiyah , the tyrant, Yazid.
Directly addressing your point, the Qunya Abu Bakr means father of young camels. Others in Arabia also had this title. It's not surprising, that in a land where you are so dependent on camels, a nick name of father of young camels is used. Therefore there is absolutely no relevance to having this nick name, and resembling someone who had that nick name, or that it means you have the characteristics of that individual.
Original post by Al-farhan
It was a kunya but later on developed into a name.
So my question still stands, and I'd appreciate any references of his name.
ps: if it is a kunya then it is even worse (how can offspring of the infallible develop the characteristics of a fallible usurper)
So my question still stands, and I'd appreciate any references of his name.
ps: if it is a kunya then it is even worse (how can offspring of the infallible develop the characteristics of a fallible usurper)
If you refer to the post i have shown earlier, i conclusively prove that Abubakr Ibn Ali was not named that as a name by his father, Ali ibn abi Talib a.s, and rather still at that point in time, it was a Qunya.
With due respect, i believe your use of fallible/infallible is more aimed at in a sense, word play, than anything else. The son of Adam pbuh, and the son of Nuh, pbuh, both sons came from pure fathers, and were astray. Abu Bakr, the son of Ali , however, did not necessarily have to be 'pure' simply due to his father either. However, may Allah azwj be pleased with him, for he was a brave matyr, who layed out his life to defend Hussain a.s, on the plains of Kerbala, against the forces of the handpicked son of Muawiyah , the tyrant, Yazid.
Directly addressing your point, the Qunya Abu Bakr means father of young camels. Others in Arabia also had this title. It's not surprising, that in a land where you are so dependent on camels, a nick name of father of young camels is used. Therefore there is absolutely no relevance to having this nick name, and resembling someone who had that nick name, or that it means you have the characteristics of that individual.
Salamunalaykum brother, and Eid Mubarak!
Take a read of the following if you get time:
Well, i will quote to you the event, narrated by Caliph, Umar ibn Al Khattab, himself and allow you to judge whether people used logic, reason, and outright believed Hz. Abu Bakr was the rightful choice, or whether it was all extremely chaotic, and there was no such consensus:
Hz.Ummar Ibn Al Khattab narrates[ In Saheeh Al Bukhari]:
Hz. Umar's quotes will be in red, and are taken from the following hadith:
http://sunnah.com/bukhari/86/57
He first states, and makes clear: "One should not deceive oneself by saying that the pledge of allegiance given to Abu Bakr was given suddenly and it was successful"
If it was so clear Hz. Abu Bakr was the most qualified, one should question why there was so much commotion, disagreement, and infighting.
He goes on to state: "After we sat for a while, the Ansar's speaker said, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' and praising Allah as He deserved, he added, 'To proceed, we are Allah's Ansar (helpers) and the majority of the Muslim army, while you, the emigrants, are a small group and some people among you came with the intention of preventing us from practicing this matter (of caliphate) and depriving us of it. "
Rather than acknowledging Hz.Abu Bakr was the best qualified, and that he, or even Umar are the best people, those of the Ansar who gathered at Saqifah with the likes of Abu Bakr and Umar, told these two that they felt they had a right to the posiiton.
He Further States: "[Abu Bakr said] :" ...I am pleased to suggest that you choose either of these two men, so take the oath of allegiance to either of them as you wish. And then Abu Bakr held my hand and Abu Ubaida"
Notice, Hz.Abu Bakr never once in his speech states any of the ahadith we tend to see elleged to the Prophet s.a.w, about the superiority of him, or even Hz. Umar. We never see that. In fact, it does not even seem to be the case that the ansaar have ever heard it either.
He further states "And then one of the Ansar said, 'I am the pillar on which the camel with a skin di ease (eczema) rubs itself to satisfy the itching (i.e., I am a noble), and I am as a high class palm tree! O Quraish. There should be one ruler from us and one from you.'
You can now see, that the Ansar who gathered at Saqifah rejected Hz.Abu Bakr' statement, and stated one leader should be from them and one from the emigrants.
He further states: "Then there was a hue and cry among the gathering and their voices rose so that I was afraid there might be great disagreement,"
Does this sound like a reasoned, well implemented method for choosing a leader for the muslims? To me, it sounds like one chaotic power struggle, and even Hz. Umar attests to the Rucus, chaos, and in-fighting that occured.
He further states: " so I said,O Abu Bakr! Hold your hand out.' He held his hand out and I pledged allegiance to him, and then all the emigrants gave the Pledge of allegiance and so did the Ansar afterwards. And so we became victorious over Sa`d bin Ubada (whom Al-Ansar wanted to make a ruler)."
As you can see, peopler weren't told about the prophets alleged words of the superiority of Hz. Abu Bakr, or Hz. Umar. The people didn't even seem to acknowledge it, or remember it. Indeed, there was chaos, a power struggle, and people never at all picked hz.abu bakr due to their belief of his superiority - it seems as though in the chaos, Hz. Umar pledged allegiance to him, and something must have happened in the chaos and confusion we are not told.
Furthermore, a number of notable companions opposed Hz. Abu Bakr, including Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s, who opposed him until the death of Fatima a.s:
As Hz. Umar states: "`Ali and Zubair and whoever was with them, opposed us,"
Original post by King7
3-The successor (Abu Bakr (RA)) was elected leader by almost all the Sahaaba, including Ali (RA). Likewise Umar (RA), Uthman (RA) and Ali (RA). Many Shi'a say that Ali opposed all their reigns, but they are fabricated hadith as their Chain of narrations are false and untrue.
3-The successor (Abu Bakr (RA)) was elected leader by almost all the Sahaaba, including Ali (RA). Likewise Umar (RA), Uthman (RA) and Ali (RA). Many Shi'a say that Ali opposed all their reigns, but they are fabricated hadith as their Chain of narrations are false and untrue.
Take a read of the following if you get time:
Well, i will quote to you the event, narrated by Caliph, Umar ibn Al Khattab, himself and allow you to judge whether people used logic, reason, and outright believed Hz. Abu Bakr was the rightful choice, or whether it was all extremely chaotic, and there was no such consensus:
Hz.Ummar Ibn Al Khattab narrates[ In Saheeh Al Bukhari]:
Hz. Umar's quotes will be in red, and are taken from the following hadith:
http://sunnah.com/bukhari/86/57
He first states, and makes clear: "One should not deceive oneself by saying that the pledge of allegiance given to Abu Bakr was given suddenly and it was successful"
If it was so clear Hz. Abu Bakr was the most qualified, one should question why there was so much commotion, disagreement, and infighting.
He goes on to state: "After we sat for a while, the Ansar's speaker said, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' and praising Allah as He deserved, he added, 'To proceed, we are Allah's Ansar (helpers) and the majority of the Muslim army, while you, the emigrants, are a small group and some people among you came with the intention of preventing us from practicing this matter (of caliphate) and depriving us of it. "
Rather than acknowledging Hz.Abu Bakr was the best qualified, and that he, or even Umar are the best people, those of the Ansar who gathered at Saqifah with the likes of Abu Bakr and Umar, told these two that they felt they had a right to the posiiton.
He Further States: "[Abu Bakr said] :" ...I am pleased to suggest that you choose either of these two men, so take the oath of allegiance to either of them as you wish. And then Abu Bakr held my hand and Abu Ubaida"
Notice, Hz.Abu Bakr never once in his speech states any of the ahadith we tend to see elleged to the Prophet s.a.w, about the superiority of him, or even Hz. Umar. We never see that. In fact, it does not even seem to be the case that the ansaar have ever heard it either.
He further states "And then one of the Ansar said, 'I am the pillar on which the camel with a skin di ease (eczema) rubs itself to satisfy the itching (i.e., I am a noble), and I am as a high class palm tree! O Quraish. There should be one ruler from us and one from you.'
You can now see, that the Ansar who gathered at Saqifah rejected Hz.Abu Bakr' statement, and stated one leader should be from them and one from the emigrants.
He further states: "Then there was a hue and cry among the gathering and their voices rose so that I was afraid there might be great disagreement,"
Does this sound like a reasoned, well implemented method for choosing a leader for the muslims? To me, it sounds like one chaotic power struggle, and even Hz. Umar attests to the Rucus, chaos, and in-fighting that occured.
He further states: " so I said,O Abu Bakr! Hold your hand out.' He held his hand out and I pledged allegiance to him, and then all the emigrants gave the Pledge of allegiance and so did the Ansar afterwards. And so we became victorious over Sa`d bin Ubada (whom Al-Ansar wanted to make a ruler)."
As you can see, peopler weren't told about the prophets alleged words of the superiority of Hz. Abu Bakr, or Hz. Umar. The people didn't even seem to acknowledge it, or remember it. Indeed, there was chaos, a power struggle, and people never at all picked hz.abu bakr due to their belief of his superiority - it seems as though in the chaos, Hz. Umar pledged allegiance to him, and something must have happened in the chaos and confusion we are not told.
Furthermore, a number of notable companions opposed Hz. Abu Bakr, including Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s, who opposed him until the death of Fatima a.s:
As Hz. Umar states: "`Ali and Zubair and whoever was with them, opposed us,"
Original post by Zamestaneh
Unfortunately the differences between Shia and Sunni are so great that it is important to differentiate between the two - there is no such thing as 'just Muslim'; mainly it is ignorant/unlearned Muslims with airy fairy views who tend to say 'I'm not Sunni or Shia, I'm just Muslim', but undoubtedly they follow either Shia Islam or Sunni Islamic practices without realising.
Oh right
Thanks
Original post by Tawheed
This is not the case. Many shia's seperate their prayers , but we believe that one is also permitted to combine Zuhr and Asr, and Maghrib and Isha, and this is often thus commonly done for ease of the Ummah. I seperate my prayers on many occasions and combine them on many occasions.
I'm just back from Iran (Tabriz and Iranian Azerbaijan), and I noticed that most everyone prayed 3 times a day - the adhan was in fact given just 3 times
no problem in praying some more, I suppose, so thanks for the info
Original post by Tawheed
Even sunni muslims are waiting for the Mahdi, who to a number is the twelfth of the 12 caliphs prophecised by the Prophet s.a.w, though not the twelfth imam a.s of the ahlulbayt asws of Muhammed s.a.w
Original post by Tawheed
Yes, and i believe this is one of the strengths of shia Islam. Following a scholar who has spent decades studying, and decades after that doing further study, of whom only a special few are granted the ability to be emulated or choose that path.
in any case, here is a more detailed list of "sources of emulation" (including some photos) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_Maraji. Who is your "source of emulation" ?
best
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by King7
Brother, lol. You?
Likewise.
Original post by King7
1-In my personal opinion, there is NO 'leader' we must obey. What I mean, is that as there is no legitimate Khilafah, there is no actual leader. Today, the Ummah is divided due to Nationalism, Astaghfirullah. However, you can choose to follow scholars who you agree with, i.e. teach Qir'an and Sunnah.
1-In my personal opinion, there is NO 'leader' we must obey. What I mean, is that as there is no legitimate Khilafah, there is no actual leader. Today, the Ummah is divided due to Nationalism, Astaghfirullah. However, you can choose to follow scholars who you agree with, i.e. teach Qir'an and Sunnah.
So you are of the belief that 4:59 doesn't apply to today, despite when mentioning the " obey the ones who are vested with power" in the present tense (minkum)?
Just 2 quick questions to follow (yes/no):
1. Does "those vested with power among you" mean the Khalifas ( Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Muwaiyya, Yazeed etc etc) in your opinion?
2. Do you agree that Quran 4:59 (part about obey the Ulil-Amr) is in present tense?
Original post by King7
2-Yazid was appointed heir, by his father. I would say this, if they followed his father they should follow him. He wasn't reported to be unfair nor unjust. But, he did commit a huge sin. Allah will be his (and our) judge on Yawm Al Qiyamah.
2-Yazid was appointed heir, by his father. I would say this, if they followed his father they should follow him. He wasn't reported to be unfair nor unjust. But, he did commit a huge sin. Allah will be his (and our) judge on Yawm Al Qiyamah.
Indeed, Allah will judge all.
Did they have to follow Muawaiiya?
Original post by King7
3-The successor (Abu Bakr (RA)) was elected leader by almost all the Sahaaba, including Ali (RA). Likewise Umar (RA), Uthman (RA) and Ali (RA). Many Shi'a say that Ali opposed all their reigns, but they are fabricated hadith as their Chain of narrations are false and untrue.
From what I have read (both shia and sunni sources), certain sahaba like Hazrat Ali wasn't present when Abu Bakr was "elected".
Umar wasn't elected brother, he was chosen specifically by Abu Bakr.
Uthman was "elected" by 6 people locked in a house.
Forgive me for asking many questions.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Tawheed
As a follow up question, how many of Hz. Abu Bakr, Hz, Umar, and Hz. Uthmans children were named Ali, Hasan, or Hussain?
A very interesting question.
Original post by Tawheed
As a follow up question, how many of Hz. Abu Bakr, Hz, Umar, and Hz. Uthmans children were named Ali, Hasan, or Hussain?
I believe none of their children were called those honourable names. But that has no significance or relevance really. Ali named his son after Abu Bakr passed away, I believe, too honour his friend and brother.
Narrated by Muhammad bin Al-Hanafiya:
I asked my father (`Ali bin Abi Talib), "Who are the best people after Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) ?" He said, "Abu Bakr." I asked, "Who then?" He said, "Then `Umar. " I was afraid he would say "Uthman, so I said, "Then you?" He said, "I am only an ordinary person."[Sahih Bukhari, no. 3671, Abu Dawud, no. 4629, & others]
Original post by mil88
From what I have read (both shia and sunni sources), certain sahaba like Hazrat Ali wasn't present when Abu Bakr was "elected".
Umar wasn't elected brother, he was chosen specifically by Abu Bakr.
Uthman was "elected" by 6 people locked in a house.
Forgive me for asking many questions.
From what I have read (both shia and sunni sources), certain sahaba like Hazrat Ali wasn't present when Abu Bakr was "elected".
Umar wasn't elected brother, he was chosen specifically by Abu Bakr.
Uthman was "elected" by 6 people locked in a house.
Forgive me for asking many questions.
No need to apologise. Regardless of whether me and you agree or not, we can both agree that having a kind and civilised discussion between Sunni's and Shi'a's and every Muslim is the way forward and too unity. Insha'Allah.
I will try my best to answer the questions you asked later on, Insha'Allah. As for the last question, I give you this Hadith:
Narrated by Muhammad bin Al-Hanafiya:
I asked my father (`Ali bin Abi Talib), "Who are the best people after Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) ?" He said, "Abu Bakr." I asked, "Who then?" He said, "Then `Umar. " I was afraid he would say "Uthman, so I said, "Then you?" He said, "I am only an ordinary person."[Sahih Bukhari, no. 3671, Abu Dawud, no. 4629, & others]
Original post by King7
No need to apologise. Regardless of whether me and you agree or not, we can both agree that having a kind and civilised discussion between Sunni's and Shi'a's and every Muslim is the way forward and too unity. Insha'Allah.
Thank you brother, such words are admirable.
Original post by King7
I will try my best to answer the questions you asked later on, Insha'Allah. As for the last question, I give you this Hadith:
I will try my best to answer the questions you asked later on, Insha'Allah. As for the last question, I give you this Hadith:
Don't worry, take your time.
Original post by King7
Narrated by Muhammad bin Al-Hanafiya:
I asked my father (`Ali bin Abi Talib), "Who are the best people after Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) ?" He said, "Abu Bakr." I asked, "Who then?" He said, "Then `Umar. " I was afraid he would say "Uthman, so I said, "Then you?" He said, "I am only an ordinary person."[Sahih Bukhari, no. 3671, Abu Dawud, no. 4629, & others]
Narrated by Muhammad bin Al-Hanafiya:
I asked my father (`Ali bin Abi Talib), "Who are the best people after Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) ?" He said, "Abu Bakr." I asked, "Who then?" He said, "Then `Umar. " I was afraid he would say "Uthman, so I said, "Then you?" He said, "I am only an ordinary person."[Sahih Bukhari, no. 3671, Abu Dawud, no. 4629, & others]
Very intriguing brother. How does this link with the famous hadith from our sunni brethern (The Prophet said, If there were to be a Prophet after me, it would've been Umar Ibn Khattab)? Doesn't this mean Umar should be first, not Abu Bakr?
To me, this emphasizes the humility and humbleness of Ali. In my eyes (and in sunni hadiths, he is no ordinary man). But nonetheless, I completely respect your beliefs about the 3 caliphs before him. See below:
This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Shu'ba with the same chain of transmitters. Amir b. Sa'd b. Abi Waqqas reported on the authority of his father that Muawiya b. Abi Sufyin appointed Sa'd as the Governor and said: "What prevents you from abusing Abu Turab (Hadrat 'Ali)?" Whereupon be said: "It is because of three things which I remember Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) having said about him that I would not abuse him, and even if I find one of those three things for me, it would be more dear to me than the red camel.
I heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) say about 'Ali as he left behind him in one of his campaigns (that was Tabuk). Ali said to him: 'Allah's Messenger, you leave me behind along with women and children.' Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said to him: 'Aren't you satisfied with being unto me what Aaron was unto Moses, but with this exception that there is no prophet after me?
' And I (also) heard him say on the Day of Khaibar: 'I would certainly give this standard to a person who loves Allah and his Messenger, and Allah and his Messenger love him, too.' He (the narrator) said: 'We had been anxiously waiting for it, when he (the Holy Prophet) said: Call 'Ali. He was called and his eyes were inflamed. He applied saliva to his eyes and handed over the standard to him, and Allah gave him victory.
' (The third occasion is this) when the (following) verse was revealed: 'Let us summon our children and your children.' Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) called 'Ali, Fatima, Hasan and Husain and said: 'O Allah, they are my family.'"
−Sahih Muslim, 31:5915
Original post by King7
No need to apologise. Regardless of whether me and you agree or not, we can both agree that having a kind and civilised discussion between Sunni's and Shi'a's and every Muslim is the way forward and too unity. Insha'Allah.
Eid mubarak my beloved brother. May Allah azwj bless you for this statement. There will be people who try to convince you other than this, and push you away from tolerance and towards secterianism, keep to what you are on.
Original post by Tawheed
Eid mubarak my beloved brother. May Allah azwj bless you for this statement. There will be people who try to convince you other than this, and push you away from tolerance and towards secterianism, keep to what you are on.
You too and Jazak'Alah Khair👍
Original post by Tawheed
[video="youtube;RnRtt83RY0w"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnRtt83RY0w[/video]
Grand Ayatullah Khamenei
Ayatullah Khamenei, in his position as the Hakim Al-Shari’i has given a Hukm forbidding blood flagellation. A hukm is binding on all Muslims, unlike a fatwa.
Question 1450:
Is hitting oneself with swords halal if it is done in secret? Or is your fatwa in this regard universal?
Answer:
In addition to the fact that it is not held in the common view as manifestations of mourning and grief and it has no precedent at the lifetime of the Imams (a.s.) and even after that and we have not received any tradition quoted from the Infallibles (a.s.) about any support for this act, be it privately or publicly, this practice would, at the present time, give others a bad image of our school of thought. Therefore, there is no way that it can be considered permissible.
Question 1449:
In commemorating the martyrdom of Imam Husayn (a.s.) on the tenth of Muharram, some people hit themselves with a machete, or walk bare-footed on fire. Such actions defame Shi‘ism and put it in a bad light, if not undermine it. They cause bodily and spiritual harms on these doing it as well. What is your opinion in this matter?
Answer:
Any practice that causes bodily harm, or leads to defaming the faith, is haram. Accordingly, the believers have to steer clear of it. There is no doubt that many of these practices besmirch the image of Ahlul Bayt’s (a.s.) School of Thought which is the worst damage and loss.
Ayatullah Mutahhari
“Blood matam in its present form does not have a rational or religious basis. It is a clear instance of deviation. At least, in the present day it causes Shi’ism to be questioned. Activities that do not have any relation to the goals of Imam Husayn (a) are razors, blades and locks. Striking the head with a blade is the same. This is a mistake. Some people take blades and strike their heads making blood flow – for what? This action is not mourning.”
Howzah va Ruhaniyat, v.3
In his book “Al Malahama Al-Husainiya”, Ayatullah Mutahhari adopts Ayatullah Muhsin Al-Amin’s opnion.
Grand Ayatullah Khomeini
“In his name, the Most High. Do not perform blood matam or the likes in the present state. If it does not include forbidden actions or defamation of the religion than there is no problem.
Istifta’at Imam, v.3, miscellaneous questions, question 37.
Grand Ayatullah Khamenei
Ayatullah Khamenei, in his position as the Hakim Al-Shari’i has given a Hukm forbidding blood flagellation. A hukm is binding on all Muslims, unlike a fatwa.
Question 1450:
Is hitting oneself with swords halal if it is done in secret? Or is your fatwa in this regard universal?
Answer:
In addition to the fact that it is not held in the common view as manifestations of mourning and grief and it has no precedent at the lifetime of the Imams (a.s.) and even after that and we have not received any tradition quoted from the Infallibles (a.s.) about any support for this act, be it privately or publicly, this practice would, at the present time, give others a bad image of our school of thought. Therefore, there is no way that it can be considered permissible.
Question 1449:
In commemorating the martyrdom of Imam Husayn (a.s.) on the tenth of Muharram, some people hit themselves with a machete, or walk bare-footed on fire. Such actions defame Shi‘ism and put it in a bad light, if not undermine it. They cause bodily and spiritual harms on these doing it as well. What is your opinion in this matter?
Answer:
Any practice that causes bodily harm, or leads to defaming the faith, is haram. Accordingly, the believers have to steer clear of it. There is no doubt that many of these practices besmirch the image of Ahlul Bayt’s (a.s.) School of Thought which is the worst damage and loss.
Ayatullah Mutahhari
“Blood matam in its present form does not have a rational or religious basis. It is a clear instance of deviation. At least, in the present day it causes Shi’ism to be questioned. Activities that do not have any relation to the goals of Imam Husayn (a) are razors, blades and locks. Striking the head with a blade is the same. This is a mistake. Some people take blades and strike their heads making blood flow – for what? This action is not mourning.”
Howzah va Ruhaniyat, v.3
In his book “Al Malahama Al-Husainiya”, Ayatullah Mutahhari adopts Ayatullah Muhsin Al-Amin’s opnion.
Grand Ayatullah Khomeini
“In his name, the Most High. Do not perform blood matam or the likes in the present state. If it does not include forbidden actions or defamation of the religion than there is no problem.
Istifta’at Imam, v.3, miscellaneous questions, question 37.
But there is no clear cut evidence from the imams that whipping/bleeding is forbidden.
It is an issue of ikhtilaaf among shia marjis and among general shias and a large body does support it.
Here you can see a debate in a shia forum about the act and vast majority agree with it and present their proof (I won't go through translating it but you can let the hawza have a look):
http://www.yahosein.com/vb/showthread.php?t=205750
Another discussion proving that the acts are allowed (encouraged even):
http://gadir.free.fr/Ar/Ehlibeyt/Huseyin/book04/6.htm
Dozens of fatwas agreeing with the acts:
http://arabic.shirazi.ir/upload/masael/subject/shaaer/letter1.htm
Another discussion with majority coming out in defense of the acts of tatbir:
http://www.yahosein.com/vb/showthread.php?t=130734
Several fatwas/discussion in agreement with tatbir:
http://www.yahosein.com/vb/showthread.php?t=178997
Dozens of fatwas by well known marjas agreeing with tatbir:
http://www.yahosein.com/vb/showthread.php?t=146082
Another discussion with proofs supporting tatbir:
http://www.yahosein.com/vb/showthread.php?t=51447
More support and proofs for tatbir among shia of this marji:
http://www.al-hasany.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8431
More debating about tatbir:
http://www.she3a-alhsen.com/showthread.php?t=5410
And this is just a small sample of what I have come across.
So it might not be as black and white as you'd think.
I 'd rather you simply say:
tatbir is an issue of ikhtilaaf among the shia marjais but I don't believe in it and the maraji'i I follow disapprove of it
Sunnis also have a lot of love for the Prophet(saw) and his family, so I don’t understand your point .... 😬, but if you feel like the Shi’a belief is correct you should research into it and not care what your family think because at the end of the day everyone is going to be held accountable for their OWN deeds.
Prophet said there will be 73 sects in Islam and only one will be right so I request you to see 72 sects are similar and same and only one sect shia is different than all the other sects of Islam, so its easy to know 72 sects can't be right if they were right they will all go to heaven but unfortunately they are not because they all are same and only one is right. All three califs are made by each other one after other Hazrat Umer took oath of allegiance to Hazrat Abu bakar and Hazrat Abu bakar appoint Umer as a second calif and Hazrat Umer Oppoint a shura who select Uthman as a third calif and after third calif was murdered all people gather around Imam Ali and forced him to become calif. Prophet said there will be 12 califs in total and all wil be from my daughter Fatima He even mtnioned the names starting with Hazrat Ali and the last one will be Mehdi. Please use your intellect without prejudice. In Quran Allah said no one has a right to appooint califs in Allah Earth. The writer of Sahih Bokhari and Muslim said when he was writing the book he saw more than 200,000 hadis and he selected around 6000 hadis which he seems to be right. During Prophet life people was fabricating wring hadis and prophet got very angry one day he said whoever fabricate false hadis will be in hell forever.We shia only follow those who were oppoibnted by Allah and his Apostle Muhammad SAWW.
W salam, Prophet Muhammad said there will be 73 sects in Islam after me and all will be wrong except one sects so I request you to use your intellect all 72 sects are same or almost similar only one sect Shia is different which means 72 can't be right becasue they all are same following Sahaba while shia is the opnly sect who only follow Alhebait AS and Prophet even told that after me there will be 12 calfs in total and all will be from from my daughter Fatima and he even mentioned the names of righful califs made by Allah first one will be Ali second will be Hasan and last will be Mehdi during the time of Mehdi will you be following Sahaba's? after last hajj Prophet appoint Imam Ali as his successor and Imam and everyone took oath of allegiance and it took three days prophet remain in Khum. Please see the history.
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