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Why group LGB with T?

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Original post by Saoirse:3
Most feminists I know wouldn't agree with that any more. It may make initial sense in the context of their theories and you can see why it gained traction decades ago, but just from a scientific point of view we now have a very good idea it is, frankly, total ********.


*Most* feminists don't believe in the vast majority of feminist theories.... it doesn't stop them identifying as feminist. It's got to the stage the vast majority of so called feminists using the label without understanding what it actually involves.
Original post by DanB1991
*Most* feminists don't believe in the vast majority of feminist theories.... it doesn't stop them identifying as feminist. It's got to the stage the vast majority of so called feminists using the label without understanding what it actually involves.


I'd say anyone who believes women are currently the less well-off sex in terms of social, political and economic status, and believes this should change, is a feminist. You don't have to subscribe to every word uttered by a feminist theorist ever - which is lucky considering they often have contradictory beliefs! It's always been a broad school of thought, and certainly nobody should feel like they have to believe things that have since been discredited to be one; that's just intellectually lazy.
I'm LGBT myself (not all of them...) and even I have no idea why that is. I assume it's because sexual identity and sexual orientation can be interconnected in one way or another; if you were born a man and felt attracted to men, you were gay, but if you transitioned to a woman, you could consider yourself straight.
Original post by Adamski191
I'm LGBT myself (not all of them...) and even I have no idea why that is. I assume it's because sexual identity and sexual orientation can be interconnected in one way or another; if you were born a man and felt attracted to men, you were gay, but if you transitioned to a woman, you could consider yourself straight.


That is exactly the reason it came about :smile: The vast, vast majority of transsexuals are considered LGB by society for at least some of their life. (I say vast majority rather than all because transitioning can, sometimes, change your sexuality or at least prompt you to explore it in ways you haven't before; so it's not impossible to go from presenting as a man while being attracted to women, transition, and then become attracted to men instead or vice-versa).
Original post by Saoirse:3
I'd say anyone who believes women are currently the less well-off sex in terms of social, political and economic status, and believes this should change, is a feminist. You don't have to subscribe to every word uttered by a feminist theorist ever - which is lucky considering they often have contradictory beliefs! It's always been a broad school of thought, and certainly nobody should feel like they have to believe things that have since been discredited to be one; that's just intellectually lazy.


However that results in legitimising academic feminism which currently has a stranglehold on politics and popular mainstream media. In politics and mainstream media what is often seen as 'mainstream feminism' is actually once again completely different to what most people who identify as feminists want.

If you look at militant feminism on campus when compared to feminism in the street they're entirely different things, but the day to day feminism is used to legitimise the more militant aspects.
Original post by DanB1991
However that results in legitimising academic feminism which currently has a stranglehold on politics and popular mainstream media. In politics and mainstream media what is often seen as 'mainstream feminism' is actually once again completely different to what most people who identify as feminists want.

If you look at militant feminism on campus when compared to feminism in the street they're entirely different things, but the day to day feminism is used to legitimise the more militant aspects.


Perhaps feminism has a stranglehold on mainstream political discourse - it's a rare politician you'll see proclaiming that women are already equal to men, let alone that they shouldn't be - but in terms of actual politics there really is very little change in that regard right now.
Original post by ckfeister
We all are discriminated against.


You're actually sort of right. When the LGBT was being formed, all people who were seen to be non heteronormative were collectively referred to as the q slur, and since nobody understood that gender identity was separate from sexual orientation, everyone was lumped together, and so decided to make an all inclusive safe space. This lead to gay people rebelling against restrictive societal norms, and so 'gay culture' was formed, where gay people explored their gender identities as well, and started to create their own norms, assumptions and traditions. In the old days, being a gay man was heavily associated with being feminine, or 'not quite a proper man', and I suppose it was another way of reclaiming insults used against them.
Rationally, the inclusion of T doesn't make much sense for a sexuality based organisation, as gender and sexuality are in no way correlated, but the rainbow flag is supposed to symbolise all non heteronormative people who don't quite fit in with the rest of society as being welcome in that place.


Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by TSR Mustafa
I was pretty blunt , no sarcasm . It doesn't relate to the title , just curious


Well just for reference on the medical side of things the condition is called gender
dysmorphia and this is the NHS definition:
"Gender dysphoria is a condition where a person experiences discomfort or distress because there is a mismatch between their biological sex and gender identity...This mismatch between sex and gender identity can lead to distressing and uncomfortable feelings that are called gender dysphoria. Gender dysphoria is a recognised medical condition, for which treatment is sometimes appropriate."

Also it is not a mental disorder. The brain physically develops into a brain of one
gender and the body develops into the body of the opposite gender. That is why
people literally say things like 'i'm a man trapped in a women's body', etc.

INTERESTING FACT: In the Islamic Republic of Iran it is considered a medical condition and treated as such while homosexuality itself can face the death penalty. It has therefore been documented that many gay men will go through the treatment and become a women not because they are trans but so they can be in a same-sex relationship without the prospect of being murdered. This is the strange world we live in.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by TSR Mustafa
I wonder why being trans isn't seen as a mental disorder , not offending anyone just curious.


It is by everyone who knows at least a little more than the the usual tumblr user.
Original post by Life_peer
It is by everyone who knows at least a little more than the the usual tumblr user.


Well, I'd hope that the American Psychiatric Association know a little more than that lot :wink: The current medical consensus, as I understand it, is that having a gender identity different to what you were born with is not a mental health issue*, but the feelings of extreme distress, anxiety and depression it can cause are. However, they chose to keep Gender Dysphoria as a whole in the DSM because removing it would cause issues for transgender individuals in terms of accessing care through their insurance policies, having it recognised as a medical condition if they need time of work for surgery and a myriad of other issues. So contrary to what many people would expect, you actually have a significant number of mental health professionals insisting it isn't a mental disorder, and a lot of transgender people who are delighted to see it kept as one even if it's only because they'd otherwise they'd have an upwards fight on their hands to keep transition considered as a medical necessity by having it re-classified as another, non-mental health condition.

(*Or at least that the evidence is far too inconclusive to define it as one)
Original post by Life_peer
It is by everyone who knows at least a little more than the the usual tumblr user.


So you know more then dr's and specialists who have studied gender dysphoria? Please do tell.

The World Health Organization's (WHO) diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM V) saysGender dysphoria is not a disorder, and is now recognized not as a condition, but as a symptom. The word
"dysphoria" means a sense of restlessness, anxiety, dissonance, or distress, and is the linguistic opposite of a sense of euphoria.

That is why the symptom of dysphoria goes away after treatment.

This is an article from 2 years ago:
http://www.news-medical.net/health/Causes-of-Gender-Dysphoria.aspx
No offense but the T section sounds like something that does not belong with the LGB. Its that question which of these don't belong in a category. I can get different sexuality but thinking you're the opposite sex? Yeah... I don't get that. That seems like the most radical part of the LGBT.
Original post by SmileyVibe
No offense but the T section sounds like something that does not belong with the LGB. Its that question which of these don't belong in a category. I can get different sexuality but thinking you're the opposite sex? Yeah... I don't get that. That seems like the most radical part of the LGBT.


Let's say that you're a trans person.

If you're going from male to female, and have a male partner, some people are going to say that you're homosexual.
If you're going from male to female, and have a female partner, some people are going to say that you're lesbian.
If you're going from male to female, and have both, people are going to say that you're bisexual.
If you're going from female to male, and have a male partner, some people are going to say that you're homosexual.
If you're going from female to male, and have a female partner, some people are going to say that you're lesbian.
If you're going from female to male, and have both, people are going to say that you're bisexual.
Get it?

From the 1980s, there has also been a huge overlap between the bisexual and trans communities, because - in contrast to the lesbian and gay ones - the former hasn't much cared about what gender someone identifies as.
Ahem, it's LGBTQIA2+ now, actually (...queer, intersex, asexual, two-spirited). No joke.

But I have an honest question: if you are a trans-woman attracted to men, are you also gay? Because you'd be biologically male, you started off as a man, and presumably your attraction to men didn't change at any point, so you'd technically be gay. But what then if you're attracted to women? Should you be considered a lesbian, seeing as we must now look upon you as a woman?

It's a freaking circus.
Original post by Dandaman1
But I have an honest question: if you are a trans-woman attracted to men, are you also gay?


No, because you're a woman attracted to men.

Original post by Dandaman1
But what then if you're attracted to women? Should you be considered a lesbian, seeing as we must now look upon you as a woman?


Yes.
Original post by TercioOfParma
Not to offend, but I am not sure why you group them together. Orientation isn't the same as identity. Could somebody explain why it is LGBT and not LGB and then have T separate?


It was never addressed at the time, now it's the norm plus adding any other random letter LGBTPQABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ :rolleyes:

Is a petition to remove the T

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Original post by TercioOfParma
Not to offend, but I am not sure why you group them together. Orientation isn't the same as identity. Could somebody explain why it is LGBT and not LGB and then have T separate?


Original post by Inexorably
I've wondered this too.


I've asked this question before; I often thought why the heck were trans-gender or gender brought up when people were debating homosexuality, considering gender is distinct from sexual orientation, despite the correlation.

Someone gave an answer saying by grouping them together, the LGB parts carry the T part in other words. Otherwise trans-gender equality would be left behind.

So although I initially disagreed semantically, I think it's a force for good now.

Original post by TSR Mustafa
I wonder why being trans isn't seen as a mental disorder , not offending anyone just curious.


Because being trans-gender isn't the mental disorder; gender dysphoria is.
Someone can be trans-gender without having gender dysphoria.
In essence someone can be trans-gender without the distress.
Ergo being trans-gender isn't where the mental illness lies.

This is what I think, and I'll explain it further if requested.
Original post by TSR Mustafa
I wonder why being trans isn't seen as a mental disorder , not offending anyone just curious.


If experts in mental disorders have not classified being transgender as one, they probably have a good reason to think that.
Original post by AngryJellyfish
No, because you're a woman attracted to men.



Yes.


So to become straight, all one needs to do is transition to the opposite gender? Doesn't that negate the fact you are still technically a male attracted to the same sex?
I've more concerned with the sexism of the phrase "LGBT" that completely ignores the idea of using an S for straight people. Absolutely disgusting hypocrisy

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