Why are punishment for crimes so lame?
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Original post by Iknowbest
With today's technology it would be much easier to catch a criminal in some circumstances:
CCTV - should be EVERYWHERE possible - human rights, privacy laws should not be an issue.. if people's lives and property can be saved!
DNA - is a lot more accurate today and can be a great way to catch a criminal or place a person at a scene (although more evidence would be required.. to avoid a person being framed)
I do understand, like I said before, there is no perfect system.. but a LOT more could be done..
Once a person is caught via CCTV - for shop lifting, mugging etc.. and 100% caught in the act.. SEVERE punishment should be dealt! There is NO excuse for committing these crimes.. NONE!
In other cases.. it would be much like now, and people would go to jail.. but it would be MUCH tougher in jail.. and again human rights should not be an issue!
CCTV - should be EVERYWHERE possible - human rights, privacy laws should not be an issue.. if people's lives and property can be saved!
DNA - is a lot more accurate today and can be a great way to catch a criminal or place a person at a scene (although more evidence would be required.. to avoid a person being framed)
I do understand, like I said before, there is no perfect system.. but a LOT more could be done..
Once a person is caught via CCTV - for shop lifting, mugging etc.. and 100% caught in the act.. SEVERE punishment should be dealt! There is NO excuse for committing these crimes.. NONE!
In other cases.. it would be much like now, and people would go to jail.. but it would be MUCH tougher in jail.. and again human rights should not be an issue!
It already is used. Crimes still happen.
DNA isnt infallible.
Who is paying for all this CCTV?
So severe punishment for shoplifting? hand chopping or life imprisonment?
As said good job you arent PM.
Go and read up on criminology.
Original post by Iknowbest
It wouldn't be difficult in this day and age with the technology we now have to catch and convict somebody of a crime to a 100% certainty. CCTV footage or DNA results, for examples.
IF a person is 100% convicted of a crime and there was no chance of this person being framed or mis-identified and depending on the crime, why shouldn't punishment be much more severe?
I do understand that it isn't always possible to convict somebody to 100% certainty.. i.e rape cases where even though dna testing is accurate and semen found, it still might have been consensual sex at the time! This poses a huge problem of course!
With people caught committing crimes on CCTV and it is 100% conclusive evidence.. and a conviction is made, then these criminals should be punished very severely. Armed robbery or even a mugging on the street are both life changing events for the victims.. and therefor the criminals should have their hands cut off or worse! It would deter others from doing it I am sure!!
I know it's not easy but I feel a LOT more could be done to deter criminals.. and it makes me wonder why it isn't?
IF a person is 100% convicted of a crime and there was no chance of this person being framed or mis-identified and depending on the crime, why shouldn't punishment be much more severe?
I do understand that it isn't always possible to convict somebody to 100% certainty.. i.e rape cases where even though dna testing is accurate and semen found, it still might have been consensual sex at the time! This poses a huge problem of course!
With people caught committing crimes on CCTV and it is 100% conclusive evidence.. and a conviction is made, then these criminals should be punished very severely. Armed robbery or even a mugging on the street are both life changing events for the victims.. and therefor the criminals should have their hands cut off or worse! It would deter others from doing it I am sure!!
I know it's not easy but I feel a LOT more could be done to deter criminals.. and it makes me wonder why it isn't?
What you're suggesting undermines our entire legal system. What you're effectively saying is that if we'er not 100% certain that a person committed a crime then we punish them anyway, just not as much.
In reality, the principal of our justice system is that the prosecution must show beyond all reasonable doubt (which can quite happily be interpreted as 100% certainty) that the defendant did it.
Platopus
Uh huh. Fact remains that most of the time when people commit a crime either:
A) It's not premeditated, so the severity of the punishment has no impact on their action.
A) It's not premeditated, so the severity of the punishment has no impact on their action.
Every reaction is caused by an action.. the only crime that is not premeditated would be to, beat somebody up because they made you mad or worse kill them. Otherwise it could be accidental death.. but depending on the action took, ie car speeding, would depend on the punishment.
If a person is capable of murder or even to hit another person out of anger, then they need to be removed from society or even from the planet! "ohh i lost my temper" is not an excuse! Maybe people will learn more self control under these conditions hey?!
Platopus
or
B) They don't expect to be caught, so the severity of the punishment has no impact on their action.
B) They don't expect to be caught, so the severity of the punishment has no impact on their action.
Not expecting to get caught.. is why we to increase the punishment to a point that even in this scenario it would be a deterrent! Also why we need more measures in place to catch criminals in many more places! ie CCTV or Google Glass type technology of the future.. in that it is a permanent, always recording, always connected to a cloud, microchip device?! We are not too far away from this personal safety device surely!! Hell, even Glass as been banned by Privacy laws.. SAFETY first I say!
We need big changes, because it does not work or even come close to working!! It's that simple!
Original post by Iknowbest
Well, let's just keep going the way we are and letting criminals off with little punishment.. and the victims affected for life then?
BIG changes are needed.. and if I was to become PM, many people would be too scared to commit any crime! Thus problem solved!
The comments regarding rehabilitation works.. punishment does not... Are you serious??? So it's ok for a victim of a crime to suffer possibly all their life (or lack of it) as long as the criminal doesn't do it again?! Such a silly argument!
BIG changes are needed.. and if I was to become PM, many people would be too scared to commit any crime! Thus problem solved!
The comments regarding rehabilitation works.. punishment does not... Are you serious??? So it's ok for a victim of a crime to suffer possibly all their life (or lack of it) as long as the criminal doesn't do it again?! Such a silly argument!
you lack a simple lack of understanding why the majority of crime is committed. Ignoring the fact the majority of crime is in fact white collar crime, which costs the tax payer much more money than traditional violent crime and is almost completely ignored by the population and media...... most 'crime' as viewed by yourself is undertaken by the poor because they're poor and they're desperate.
Drug dealers for example, are very rarely these drug kingpins films often portray them as. Often they started off as poor kids with very little education or chance of a decent career. Selling drugs is quite often an avenue for the most vulnerable in our society to actually make decent money.
Solve economic, work and housing issues and you'd see a sharp drop in crime. Many countries with harsher punishments still have much higher crime rates for that precise reason.
To be quite honest, speaking as someone who comes from the right side of politics, sending someone to prison for an unreasonable length of time is neither beneficial for either the perpetrator or society. To send someone to prison here in the UK, it costs the government upwards of £40,000 per year, which is money that could be spent on much more essential sectors of our public domain such as paying down the debt or on health and education. To add, sending someone to prison without any focus on reintegration and rehabilitation will have disastrous affects on society, as lack of rehabilitation is why recidivism and re-offending rates in the UK is so high, and hence more victims. In fairness to Gove, the Justice Secretary, he has been at the forefront of reforming our justice system by progressive means and a restorative justice system is much more beneficial over the long-term than punitive ones which serve no pragmatic application.
Original post by 999tigger
It already is used. Crimes still happen.
DNA isnt infallible.
Who is paying for all this CCTV?
So severe punishment for shoplifting? hand chopping or life imprisonment?
As said good job you arent PM.
Go and read up on criminology.
DNA isnt infallible.
Who is paying for all this CCTV?
So severe punishment for shoplifting? hand chopping or life imprisonment?
As said good job you arent PM.
Go and read up on criminology.
The problem is we have people like you that are PM's. who can't think outside the box or are too scared of offending people!
No need to read up on criminology, it is a fact too much crime happens and MANY people are victims..
Who's paying for it?.. there should be NO price to help protect people.
What happens to a dog if it bites somebody?!
If a person is caught shoplifting.. on CCTV, in full view, taking the stuff out of a shop without paying.. then they need to be punished severely.. maybe I went too far with the hand chopping off.. (although it would certainly deter many people) The usual case is they are not sent to prison and I have heard about prolific shoplifters.. in my area. They are still out and about doing it and are usually just banned from shops etc.. they should be rotting in jail... (but this costs too much!!!!) Again money, money, money before innocent people!
Original post by Iknowbest
The problem is we have people like you that are PM's. who can't think outside the box or are too scared of offending people!
No need to read up on criminology, it is a fact too much crime happens and MANY people are victims..
Who's paying for it?.. there should be NO price to help protect people.
What happens to a dog if it bites somebody?!
If a person is caught shoplifting.. on CCTV, in full view, taking the stuff out of a shop without paying.. then they need to be punished severely.. maybe I went too far with the hand chopping off.. (although it would certainly deter many people) The usual case is they are not sent to prison and I have heard about prolific shoplifters.. in my area. They are still out and about doing it and are usually just banned from shops etc.. they should be rotting in jail... (but this costs too much!!!!) Again money, money, money before innocent people!
No need to read up on criminology, it is a fact too much crime happens and MANY people are victims..
Who's paying for it?.. there should be NO price to help protect people.
What happens to a dog if it bites somebody?!
If a person is caught shoplifting.. on CCTV, in full view, taking the stuff out of a shop without paying.. then they need to be punished severely.. maybe I went too far with the hand chopping off.. (although it would certainly deter many people) The usual case is they are not sent to prison and I have heard about prolific shoplifters.. in my area. They are still out and about doing it and are usually just banned from shops etc.. they should be rotting in jail... (but this costs too much!!!!) Again money, money, money before innocent people!
What's a PM?
If you study criminology then you realise what the issues and arguments are. Your is more stick, more sanction, more priosn and scaring people. It doesnt work.
You dont pay any attention to rehabillitation.
In the real world the cost of things is relevant . It would be nice if everything was free , but someone somewhere pays, so where is all the money coming from for all this infallible technology and running the extra prisons?
Money is relevant in the real world when things have to be paid for. People wont build or run the jails or selll you your CCTV and technology without it.
Original post by DanB1991 you lack a simple lack of understanding why the majority of crime is committed.
Ignoring the fact the majority of crime is in fact white collar crime, which costs the tax payer much more money than traditional violent crime and is almost completely ignored by the population and media...... most 'crime' as viewed by yourself is undertaken by the poor because they're poor and they're desperate.
Drug dealers for example, are very rarely these drug kingpins films often portray them as. Often they started off as poor kids with very little education or chance of a decent career. Selling drugs is quite often an avenue for the most vulnerable in our society to actually make decent money.
Solve economic, work and housing issues and you'd see a sharp drop in crime. Many countries with harsher punishments still have much higher crime rates for that precise reason.
you lack a simple lack of understanding why the majority of crime is committed. Ignoring the fact the majority of crime is in fact white collar crime, which costs the tax payer much more money than traditional violent crime and is almost completely ignored by the population and media...... most 'crime' as viewed by yourself is undertaken by the poor because they're poor and they're desperate.
Drug dealers for example, are very rarely these drug kingpins films often portray them as. Often they started off as poor kids with very little education or chance of a decent career. Selling drugs is quite often an avenue for the most vulnerable in our society to actually make decent money.
Solve economic, work and housing issues and you'd see a sharp drop in crime. Many countries with harsher punishments still have much higher crime rates for that precise reason.
When did I say it was just poor people.. I am talking about all crimes. These organised crime gangs, for example, they get many people involved and they know these people would take the fall, in many cases, if caught. The people who do the dirty work would be less inclined to be involved if the punishment was more severe.
Drug dealers in my area simply use local backstreets to sell.... I have witnessed it on many occasions.. so solution more CCTV and Police officers on the streets! Not difficult.. oh wait.. money of course is the obstacle once again! Money over people once again!
Original post by 999tigger
What's a PM?
If you study criminology then you realise what the issues and arguments are. Your is more stick, more sanction, more priosn and scaring people. It doesnt work.
You dont pay any attention to rehabillitation.
In the real world the cost of things is relevant . It would be nice if everything was free , but someone somewhere pays, so where is all the money coming from for all this infallible technology and running the extra prisons?
Money is relevant in the real world when things have to be paid for. People wont build or run the jails or selll you your CCTV and technology without it.
If you study criminology then you realise what the issues and arguments are. Your is more stick, more sanction, more priosn and scaring people. It doesnt work.
You dont pay any attention to rehabillitation.
In the real world the cost of things is relevant . It would be nice if everything was free , but someone somewhere pays, so where is all the money coming from for all this infallible technology and running the extra prisons?
Money is relevant in the real world when things have to be paid for. People wont build or run the jails or selll you your CCTV and technology without it.
sorry PM = Prime Minister..
OK.. money should not even be a problem for these things.. each LA (= Local Authority) should be funded to add CCTV everywhere and more Police to the street.. also more prisons.. if required.. I, for one, would happily double my tax payments if it meant being safer.. would you?
Original post by Iknowbest
No need to read up on criminology,
And we wonder why the country is ****ed. Let's just shut down all the schools, they've failed.
Original post by JordanL_
And we wonder why the country is ****ed. Let's just shut down all the schools, they've failed.
It's a fact there is crime in the UK.. so no need to study this. Why crime is committed is quite simple right? Money 1st, Jealousy or fit of rage (losing temper) 2nd, sexual crimes 3rd.. any other 4th..
Unfortunately the reasons for these crimes.. is not being addressed, and things are just getting worse.
So without the ability to actually stop these crimes before they happen.. let's try to deter them from happening!
Rehabiltating a person.. means they have already committed a crime and therefor we already have a victim!!! Let's stop having victims..
Original post by Iknowbest
CCTV - should be EVERYWHERE possible - human rights, privacy laws should not be an issue.. if people's lives and property can be saved!
It was at this point that my suspicion that you had been temporarily deprived of oxygen at birth was confirmed.
Original post by Iknowbest
It wouldn't be difficult in this day and age with the technology we now have to catch and convict somebody of a crime to a 100% certainty. CCTV footage or DNA results, for examples.
IF a person is 100% convicted of a crime and there was no chance of this person being framed or mis-identified and depending on the crime, why shouldn't punishment be much more severe?
I do understand that it isn't always possible to convict somebody to 100% certainty.. i.e rape cases where even though dna testing is accurate and semen found, it still might have been consensual sex at the time! This poses a huge problem of course!
With people caught committing crimes on CCTV and it is 100% conclusive evidence.. and a conviction is made, then these criminals should be punished very severely. Armed robbery or even a mugging on the street are both life changing events for the victims.. and therefor the criminals should have their hands cut off or worse! It would deter others from doing it I am sure!!
I know it's not easy but I feel a LOT more could be done to deter criminals.. and it makes me wonder why it isn't?
IF a person is 100% convicted of a crime and there was no chance of this person being framed or mis-identified and depending on the crime, why shouldn't punishment be much more severe?
I do understand that it isn't always possible to convict somebody to 100% certainty.. i.e rape cases where even though dna testing is accurate and semen found, it still might have been consensual sex at the time! This poses a huge problem of course!
With people caught committing crimes on CCTV and it is 100% conclusive evidence.. and a conviction is made, then these criminals should be punished very severely. Armed robbery or even a mugging on the street are both life changing events for the victims.. and therefor the criminals should have their hands cut off or worse! It would deter others from doing it I am sure!!
I know it's not easy but I feel a LOT more could be done to deter criminals.. and it makes me wonder why it isn't?
I know a guy who might fancy your ideas, too bad he's been dead for 1400 years.
Original post by TheThiefOfBagdad
It was at this point that my suspicion that you had been temporarily deprived of oxygen at birth was confirmed.
Such an immature and pointless comment.. unless you want to elaborate?
Original post by Iknowbest
It's a fact there is crime in the UK.. so no need to study this. Why crime is committed is quite simple right? Money 1st, Jealousy or fit of rage (losing temper) 2nd, sexual crimes 3rd.. any other 4th..
Unfortunately the reasons for these crimes.. is not being addressed, and things are just getting worse.
So without the ability to actually stop these crimes before they happen.. let's try to deter them from happening!
Rehabiltating a person.. means they have already committed a crime and therefor we already have a victim!!! Let's stop having victims..
Unfortunately the reasons for these crimes.. is not being addressed, and things are just getting worse.
So without the ability to actually stop these crimes before they happen.. let's try to deter them from happening!
Rehabiltating a person.. means they have already committed a crime and therefor we already have a victim!!! Let's stop having victims..
You've made it quite clear why we study it - because people who pull their opinions out of thin air, like you, are completely clueless.
Harsher punishment DO NOT DETER CRIME. This is a fact, it's what happens in the real world, you can't agree or disagree or have your own opinion.
Original post by JordanL_
You've made it quite clear why we study it - because people who pull their opinions out of thin air, like you, are completely clueless.
Harsher punishment DO NOT DETER CRIME. This is a fact, it's what happens in the real world, you can't agree or disagree or have your own opinion.
Harsher punishment DO NOT DETER CRIME. This is a fact, it's what happens in the real world, you can't agree or disagree or have your own opinion.
Ho do you know that harsher punishment wouldn't deter some crimes here in the UK? Where are you getting this "fact" from?
Original post by Iknowbest
Ho do you know that harsher punishment wouldn't deter some crimes here in the UK? Where are you getting this "fact" from?
This is why we have criminology, which you dismiss.
Original post by Iknowbest
Ho do you know that harsher punishment wouldn't deter some crimes here in the UK? Where are you getting this "fact" from?
Because there's an overwhelming amount of evidence indicating that that's almost never the case. That's why there's an entire field dedicated to studying it.
http://orientation.uchicagolawandecon.org/readings/Do%20Harsher%20Prison%20Conditions.pdf
http://www.castanet.net/news/Law-Matters/68717/Do-severe-punishments-deter-crime
http://tpj.sagepub.com/content/91/3_suppl/48S.short
http://aler.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2011/02/01/aler.ahq024.short
http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-1-4684-5652-3_3#page-1
http://www.jstor.org/stable/1147698?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
Original post by 999tigger
This is why we have criminology, which you dismiss.
Well they are doing a bad job!
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