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Sir Richard Branson talks about brexit

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Original post by Pulse.
I think an above poster put it well, if Remain were to win a second referendum there would be equal if not more pressure from the Leave side for a third referendum. Also it was the Remain side who said it more prominently that this would be a serious, a once in a lifetime and irreversible vote. Can't blame Brexiteers for taking this advice in all its value relative to those who wanted to stay in the EU.


I think that's a fair point. A few people have warned about a "neverendum" situation where we simply have referenda until everyone is satisfied (i.e. never).
Original post by JordanL_
What's the problem? If it's truly the will of the people, leave would win a second referendum.


The problem is that there is no legitimacy to a second referendum. What do we do if we have another one, and we vote to remain, and some people want another because they want to leave? If we have a second one we cannot deny a third one then because how is that fair? It's the same as with ALL other votes. We've had the vote, that's it. I respect that people will be upset, and that is understandable. But it is not justified for people who wanted to remain to undermine a vote that millions of people made just because you don't like the result. That isn't how voting works, your view is not more important than the fact that more people voted against you than with you but people calling for a second referendum are saying exactly that.

Be upset, moan about it, if it all goes wrong go ahead and say 'I told you so' but to ask everyone to vote again because you don't like the result is pathetic, it really is. There is no reason for another referendum other than some people not liking the result and that will always be the case in ALL things we vote for so why should it be different this time? Lots of people didn't want a Tory government before and we didn't have a second vote again for that.
Original post by JordanL_
I wouldn't really see a problem in repeating until we get the same result twice in a row. Alternatively, keep the status quo if the majority is that narrow.



That's still extremely undemocratic - almost Fascist.

Your views in particular are rather frightening.
Original post by infairverona
The problem is that there is no legitimacy to a second referendum. What do we do if we have another one, and we vote to remain, and some people want another because they want to leave? If we have a second one we cannot deny a third one then because how is that fair? It's the same as with ALL other votes. We've had the vote, that's it. I respect that people will be upset, and that is understandable. But it is not justified for people who wanted to remain to undermine a vote that millions of people made just because you don't like the result. That isn't how voting works, your view is not more important than the fact that more people voted against you than with you but people calling for a second referendum are saying exactly that.


There should have been rules laid out before the referendum was allowed to happen. This type of change shouldn't be able to happen with a 0.1% majority, it should require a significant majority, and there should have been strict rules set regarding the campaigns, like there are for general elections.

Be upset, moan about it, if it all goes wrong go ahead and say 'I told you so' but to ask everyone to vote again because you don't like the result is pathetic, it really is. There is no reason for another referendum other than some people not liking the result and that will always be the case in ALL things we vote for so why should it be different this time?


But I don't want to say "I told you so". Getting to say that isn't going to make up for a couple of decades of recession and ruined progress.

Lots of people didn't want a Tory government before and we didn't have a second vote again for that.


Because that was the result of a general election with clear rules set out. If the Tories had campaigned in the general election using the tactics that Vote Leave did, they'd be facing criminal charges.

Original post by The Roast
That's still extremely undemocratic - almost Fascist.

Your views in particular are rather frightening.


Fascist? Requiring a significant majority and minimum turnout for a constitutional change is standard for referendums, we just didn't have any rules in place here.
It would be undemocratic because the first referendum has not had any significant impact yet - certainly not the impact that people voting would have wanted. If a referendum has no real result what is the point? Unless of course you make it explicitly obvious that it is just a basically a "public survey".

Anyway, the bigger problem with a second referendum is that it is just downright manipulative. Remain most likely would win such just because the sheer ****ing onslaught of fear mongering propaganda from the media after the vote is colossal. Also, it's unfair because most of the benefits of brexit will not be seen until 10 years after this vote at the very least! Yet the harms are immediate. It is a long term reform for the better of our country. Economic shocks that go against forecaster expectations are a real short term harm. We all know that people place disproportionate concern about short term things than long term things so the second referendum given how the brexit thing works just makes the brexit option look far worse tan it really is.
Original post by taintedlight
before anyone even decides to disregard this gentleman, you would be wise to read his wikipedia profile first and foremost 🗿

[video]https://youtu.be/2gqzyp_odio[/video]

secondly, why does anyone feel a second referendum is going to be "undemocratic" when the same people can vote again?


haha richard branson doesn't pay any tax in the uk, avoiding tax, self interested ****
Original post by IronicalMan
haha richard branson doesn't pay any tax in the uk, avoiding tax, self interested ****


Lol I don't pay any taxes, am I self interested ****? :laugh:

It's a shame your bitterness cannot see the world of good he brought to the business world through his Virgin Empire and the B-Team. RB is an inspiration m8. Sort yourself out!
Original post by TaintedLight
Lol I don't pay any taxes, am I self interested ****? :laugh:

It's a shame your bitterness cannot see the world of good he brought to the business world through his Virgin Empire and the B-Team. RB is an inspiration m8. Sort yourself out!


But he doesn't pay tax in the UK... So he can save money... Other businesses can compete, but would so better if they didn't pay tax in the UK... HE IS AVOIDING TAX, IS NOT AVOIDING TAX SOMETHING TO BE PROUD OF, HE WAS APART OF THE REMAIN CAMP SO HE COULD BENEFIT FROM CHEAP LABOUR, THE **** SHOULD PAY UK TAX IF HE WANTS ANYONE TO TAKE HIM SERIOUSLY THAT PAYS TAX IN THE UK. HE'S A BILLIONAIRE FOR **** SAKE, OFC HE SHOULD PAY THE UK TAX RATE AND NOT MANIPULATE IT IN SUCH A WAY HE DOESN'T.
Original post by TaintedLight
Before anyone even decides to disregard this gentleman, you would be wise to read his Wikipedia profile first and foremost 🗿

[video]https://youtu.be/2GQZyP_Odio[/video]

Secondly, why does anyone feel a second referendum is going to be "undemocratic" when the same people can vote again?


It's undemocratic because if the remain campaign won they wouldn't be asking for one. Also it would be a huge expense to the taxpayer. Also why not look at what James Dyson said about the EU not all business people agree on it being a good thing.
Original post by IronicalMan
But he doesn't pay tax in the UK... So he can save money... Other businesses can compete, but would so better if they didn't pay tax in the UK... HE IS AVOIDING TAX, IS NOT AVOIDING TAX SOMETHING TO BE PROUD OF, HE WAS APART OF THE REMAIN CAMP SO HE COULD BENEFIT FROM CHEAP LABOUR, THE **** SHOULD PAY UK TAX IF HE WANTS ANYONE TO TAKE HIM SERIOUSLY THAT PAYS TAX IN THE UK. HE'S A BILLIONAIRE FOR **** SAKE, OFC HE SHOULD PAY THE UK TAX RATE AND NOT MANIPULATE IT IN SUCH A WAY HE DOESN'T.


Firstly, his income is not generated from the UK nor is he residing in UK, so if you know your tax laws, as an individual his income is exempted from taxation.

Secondly, his non-profit organization and charity work far exceeds benefits (in the form of jobs, income, investment) than the meager sums he would otherwise pay as income tax or whatever.

Thirdly, take salt off your diet.


Original post by karl pilkington
It's undemocratic because if the remain campaign won they wouldn't be asking for one. Also it would be a huge expense to the taxpayer. Also why not look at what James Dyson said about the EU not all business people agree on it being a good thing.


Whilst you raise sound points, I can counter, like many else have, with the following:

1) Leave campaigners had no post-exit plan and relied on false propaganda to win votes. A democratic nation (if we are one) should be accepting voices like yours truly instead of shooting it down.

2) It's not one or two but more than half a million people who have admitted to guilt or felt "played" after voting Leave. Latest article on that:

Spoiler


3) Xenophobia is rife, investors are pulling breaks and future job prospects are bleak. Initially the Leave campaign called this "rhetoric" as scaremongering from the remain camp, but lets face it, it turned out to be i told you so.

So yes I would argue democracy extends to holding a fair and honest campaign - not something that involves exploiting the uneducated masses' intelligence to have it your way.

Also, if you are concerned with those tax payers' money being wasted then you will be thrilled to know after UK lost its AAA credit rating, our borrowing rate will rise by at least 50 basis points.

So as we speak we will roughly be paying our EU membership fees in the form of increased borrowed costs every week. Is that a waste of money or what?!
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by TaintedLight
Firstly, his income is not generated from the UK nor is he residing in UK, so if you know your tax laws, as an individual his income is exempted from taxation.

Secondly, his non-profit organization and charity work far exceeds benefits (in the form of jobs, income, investment) than the meager sums he would otherwise pay as income tax or whatever.

Thirdly, take salt off your diet.




Whilst you raise sound points, I can counter, like many else have, with the following:

1) Leave campaigners had no post-exit plan and relied on false propaganda to win votes. A democratic nation (if we are one) should be accepting voices like yours truly instead of shooting it down.

2) It's not one or two but more than half a million people who have admitted to guilt or felt "played" after voting Leave. Latest article on that https://www.rt.com/uk/349705-bregret-wales-brexit-referendum/

3) Today, xenophobia is rife, investors are pulling breaks and future job prospects are bleak. Intially the Leave campaign called this as scaremongering from the remain camp, but lets face it, remainers were actually right.

So yes I would argue democracy extends to holding a fair and honest campaign. And this one was certainly not. If you are concerned with those tax payers' money being wasted then you will be thrilled to know after UK lost its AAA credit rating, our borrowing rate will rise by at least 50 basis points.

So as we speak we will roughly be paying our EU membership fees in the form of increased borrowed costs every week. Is that a waste of money or not?!


Realistically the vote was won due to immigration the 350m claim was kind of irrelevant ie we would have won anyway. The remain campaign had no answer as to how to deal with immigration whilst being in the EU. We haven;t actually left the EU and may never will, the economic arguments have not come true. They will only be apparent if we leave the EU and in the next decade. The remain campaign also were dishonest regarding the punishment budget etc
Original post by karl pilkington
Realistically the vote was won due to immigration the 350m claim was kind of irrelevant ie we would have won anyway. The remain campaign had no answer as to how to deal with immigration whilst being in the EU. We haven;t actually left the EU and may never will, the economic arguments have not come true. They will only be apparent if we leave the EU and in the next decade. The remain campaign also were dishonest regarding the punishment budget etc


No you wouldn't. If people knew what they were getting into they wouldn't vote leave. One of the links in my earlier post backed this claim.

That's a loose claim to make. Whatever our immigration policy was today it would have been applied in the same pace. This wasn't a billion dollar question where a solution was much sought out. And as a matter of fact, an independent UK would be dealing with more migration from non EU states than ever before. In other words, the leave campaign hardly had a post-EU plan for UK let alone a cogent immigration plan!

Spoiler


I'm sure the "economic arguments" you claim might be different from what I have in mind. But can we agree the currency meltdown is part of the economic argument?

Go on with the "punishment budget" claim. I'd like to compare how sensational was this claim with the £350m/week injection for the NHS.
Branson: the tax exile who moved his business to Switzerland for tax reasons crying because he has lost a third off his share price.

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Original post by DorianGrayism
Don't worry everyone.

All that happened was that Richard Branson decreased investment in the UK by suspending his purchase of a UK based business.,


Why is that not a cause of concern? That's precisely what was predicted by economists; reduced investment and new businesses in our country because of reduced confidence and uncertainty concerning the future. That is precisely what was predicted so how can you say that's not a worry? That's exactly what's going to damage our economy, or at the very best prevent growth.
Original post by Twinpeaks
Why is that not a cause of concern? That's precisely what was predicted by economists; reduced investment and new businesses in our country because of reduced confidence and uncertainty concerning the future. That is precisely what was predicted so how can you say that's not a worry? That's exactly what's going to damage our economy, or at the very best prevent growth.


Remainer logic: we cannot do anything with short term loss, even for long term gain. It's a wonder any of you went to uni rather than spending your lives stacking shelves.

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Original post by Twinpeaks
Why is that not a cause of concern? That's precisely what was predicted by economists; reduced investment and new businesses in our country because of reduced confidence and uncertainty concerning the future. That is precisely what was predicted so how can you say that's not a worry? That's exactly what's going to damage our economy, or at the very best prevent growth.


Lol. It was sarcasm.
Original post by JordanL_
Except that it wouldn't, because if remain won a second referendum then the majority would clearly have changed. That's perfectly democratic.

You only don't want a second referendum because you know you'd lose now that all your lies have been revealed, it's nothing to do with democracy.


You liberals are all the same, throw toys out the buggy as soon as you don't get your way. Bottom line is this - We had our vote, you voted for what you believed in and albeit you lost. It's not the end of the world, the only real losers here are the EU and the worlds obscenely rich. If you wasn't all brainwashed by the Murdoch machines propaganda, you would see what's really going on here too.

And after all if you love the EU so much, you can always move there and leave the country you have turned your back on to get on with it.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Jammy Duel
Remainer logic: we cannot do anything with short term loss, even for long term gain. It's a wonder any of you went to uni rather than spending your lives stacking shelves.

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What gain?
Original post by Twinpeaks
What gain?


Improved trade terms for tomorrows market, perhaps? Reduction of harmful regulation? Greater long term growth?
Original post by IronicalMan
But he doesn't pay tax in the UK... So he can save money... Other businesses can compete, but would so better if they didn't pay tax in the UK... HE IS AVOIDING TAX, IS NOT AVOIDING TAX SOMETHING TO BE PROUD OF, HE WAS APART OF THE REMAIN CAMP SO HE COULD BENEFIT FROM CHEAP LABOUR, THE **** SHOULD PAY UK TAX IF HE WANTS ANYONE TO TAKE HIM SERIOUSLY THAT PAYS TAX IN THE UK. HE'S A BILLIONAIRE FOR **** SAKE, OFC HE SHOULD PAY THE UK TAX RATE AND NOT MANIPULATE IT IN SUCH A WAY HE DOESN'T.


I don't think you said the word tax enough times in this post tbh

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