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Failed PIP assessment; really scared :(
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Original post by hiu
Yes, I do actually.
and did you send it in with your application form?
Original post by Tiger Rag
and did you send it in with your application form?
I listed all the details necessary for everyone involved in my care.
I had spoken to my GP beforehand who said he/they wouldn't help, was policy, unless contacted by the DWP directly.
I got a hand wave from the assessor, some general comment like "I have checked all the relevant information."
Original post by hiu
I listed all the details necessary for everyone involved in my care.
I had spoken to my GP beforehand who said he/they wouldn't help, was policy, unless contacted by the DWP directly.
I got a hand wave from the assessor, some general comment like "I have checked all the relevant information."
I had spoken to my GP beforehand who said he/they wouldn't help, was policy, unless contacted by the DWP directly.
I got a hand wave from the assessor, some general comment like "I have checked all the relevant information."
DWP don't have to contact the people listed on your form. It's your responsibility to ensure you send in evidence. Any evidence has to be relevant.
Original post by Tiger Rag
DWP don't have to contact the people listed on your form. It's your responsibility to ensure you send in evidence. Any evidence has to be relevant.
Yes....and as I have already stated, I was blocked from doing so by my GP.
Original post by hiu
I resent the implication I am being fraudulent, exaggerating or that my claim is implausible.
I am telling you what you need to do to win your claim. If you cannot see that, that is your problem.
You have already mentioned one descriptor which the DWP seemingly accepted yet for which you were awarded no points. You have now mentioned another; can stand and then move more than 50 metres but no more than 200 metres, either aided or unaided. That is worth 4 points, again, not enough to get a mobility award but it is a start.
Either you are reading the paperwork incorrectly, the DWP decision-maker has contradicted the person who conducted the examination (rare) or they have made a complete balls-up of the scoring (also rare). The most likely is the first, but obviously I am not in a position to rule out the other two possibilities. What did the CAB person say? Did he think you had "won" these 5 points but then not got them? If the decision-maker has negatively countermanded the examiner or there is a problem with the scoring, then both of those are cases where you might get something out of the internal reconsideration. However these alone are not enough points to win. You need 7 more daily living and 4 more mobility points to get an award.
The problem with the GP is about money. GPs only get paid for providing evidence to the DWP if the DWP requests it. You need to contact the GP again and offer to pay for a medical report.
Finally you refer to pain when walking. Walking whilst in severe discomfort wasn't walking for the purposes of DLA. Walking in pain is still walking for PIP unless it causes you harm or means you can't walk to an acceptable standard. Like many claimants you are trying to satisfy superseded tests.
Original post by hiu
Do you have any links to statistics....? (please 
)
)Sorry - have checked my facts and it's just under half of appeals which succeed. However, that figure is increasing year on year if you look at this website:
http://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/2015/september/half-pip-and-esa-appeals-successful
So it's definitely worth taking further - an appeal is pretty much expected by those who administer the system. That Disability Rights UK organisation looks like it could be helpful.
Just had a thought.
In the letter:
Decision maker stated:
Assessor claims that I walked at a slow pace with altered gait 30 metres to assessment room and did not appear breathless. Therefore they have decided I can move more than 50 metres but no more than 200 metres reliably. If I struggled with 30 metres, how then can I manage 50 metres?
Also the PIP descriptors make reference to:
"Can stand and then move using an aid or appliance more than 20 metres but no more than 50 metres. 10 points. "
I have to wear an orthotic ankle splint that immobilises my ankle and to prevent the instability caused by the weakness in my ankle. I also have internal fixation (surgical screws and pins that keep the talus together). Would these qualify as aids/appliances? Realise this is a long shot, but, just thought I'd raise it anyway
Will be sending a X-ray of my ankle, and a letter from my orthopaedic surgeon.
In the letter:
Decision maker stated:
Assessor claims that I walked at a slow pace with altered gait 30 metres to assessment room and did not appear breathless. Therefore they have decided I can move more than 50 metres but no more than 200 metres reliably. If I struggled with 30 metres, how then can I manage 50 metres?
Also the PIP descriptors make reference to:
"Can stand and then move using an aid or appliance more than 20 metres but no more than 50 metres. 10 points. "
I have to wear an orthotic ankle splint that immobilises my ankle and to prevent the instability caused by the weakness in my ankle. I also have internal fixation (surgical screws and pins that keep the talus together). Would these qualify as aids/appliances? Realise this is a long shot, but, just thought I'd raise it anyway
Will be sending a X-ray of my ankle, and a letter from my orthopaedic surgeon.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by hiu
Just had a thought.
In the letter:
Decision maker stated:
Assessor claims that I walked at a slow pace with altered gait 30 metres to assessment room and did not appear breathless. Therefore they have decided I can move more than 50 metres but no more than 200 metres reliably. If I struggled with 30 metres, how then can I manage 50 metres?
Also the PIP descriptors make reference to:
"Can stand and then move using an aid or appliance more than 20 metres but no more than 50 metres. 10 points. "
I have to wear an orthotic ankle splint that immobilises my ankle and to prevent the instability caused by the weakness in my ankle. I also have internal fixation (surgical screws and pins that keep the talus together). Would these qualify as aids/appliances? Realise this is a long shot, but, just thought I'd raise it anyway
Will be sending a X-ray of my ankle, and a letter from my orthopaedic surgeon.
In the letter:
Decision maker stated:
Assessor claims that I walked at a slow pace with altered gait 30 metres to assessment room and did not appear breathless. Therefore they have decided I can move more than 50 metres but no more than 200 metres reliably. If I struggled with 30 metres, how then can I manage 50 metres?
Also the PIP descriptors make reference to:
"Can stand and then move using an aid or appliance more than 20 metres but no more than 50 metres. 10 points. "
I have to wear an orthotic ankle splint that immobilises my ankle and to prevent the instability caused by the weakness in my ankle. I also have internal fixation (surgical screws and pins that keep the talus together). Would these qualify as aids/appliances? Realise this is a long shot, but, just thought I'd raise it anyway
Will be sending a X-ray of my ankle, and a letter from my orthopaedic surgeon.
Once they decide you can move more than 50 metres, you get the same points whether you have an appliance or not.
Did you get the 4 points for more than 50, less than 200?
I think it is perfectly reasonable conclusion that if you walked 30 metres without being breathless on the day of the examination, you could manage another 20. However, having walked more than 50 once, you have to be able to walk more than 50 again when called upon to do it again. An argument about repetition is likely to be more productive than an argument about distance. People always understate walking distance and tribunals are very good at catching people out with indirect questioning and if you dodge the questions, the rest of your evidence will lack credibility.
Original post by nulli tertius
Once they decide you can move more than 50 metres, you get the same points whether you have an appliance or not.
An argument about repetition is likely to be more productive than an argument about distance.
An argument about repetition is likely to be more productive than an argument about distance.
Nods, that is why I am writing to my Consultant OS; to let him determine other factors: such as reliability, time taken, safely etc. It is also worth noting that I was actually breathless, and that was why my walking WAS so slow, because I had to stop, "recoup" (i.e. wait for a wave of pain to pass me by), and I was getting winded by the exertion.
My condition is more severe in the morning (my OS can corroborate this, and it is not unusual), and the assessor did not even notice my ankle splint. If I was asked to bend my foot, they would see just how limited my ROM is; as well as how weakened my ankle actually is (as well as surgical scars, being able to feel the pins etc). Could I walk 200 metres? Sure! But the cumulative effect of doing so, pain wise, tiredness (my gait is altered, my biomechanics are "off" and so I putting more strain on specific joints when walking) would mean I do so with a lot of pain, and in a longer period of time than someone without my specific joint problems.
Yes I got the 4 points for the more than 50 less than 200. Im sorry about that, was badly distracted when I made my original post (had been at a funeral earlier).
(edited 7 years ago)
You need to contend their decision. They did the same with me. Apparently saying that I can walk for a minute means that I can walk 50m and I "looked" like I could walk 50m. I ended up having a tribunal and winning so I now get higher rate mobility and standard rate care. PIP assessments are done by a company which employs so-called medical professionals which aren't actually qualified in the are of your disability. So you might get a mental health nurse assessing you on your physical disability.
Original post by hiu
Nods, that is why I am writing to my Consultant OS; to let him determine other factors: such as reliability, time taken, safely etc. It is also worth noting that I was actually breathless, and that was why my walking WAS so slow, because I had to stop, "recoup" (i.e. wait for a wave of pain to pass me by), and I was getting winded by the exertion.
My condition is more severe in the morning (my OS can corroborate this, and it is not unusual), and the assessor did not even notice my ankle splint. If I was asked to bend my foot, they would see just how limited my ROM is; as well as how weakened my ankle actually is (as well as surgical scars, being able to feel the pins etc). Could I walk 200 metres? Sure! But the cumulative effect of doing so, pain wise, tiredness (my gait is altered, my biomechanics are "off" and so I putting more strain on specific joints when walking) would mean I do so with a lot of pain, and in a longer period of time than someone without my specific joint problems.
Yes I got the 4 points for the more than 50 less than 200. Im sorry about that, was badly distracted when I made my original post (had been at a funeral earlier).
My condition is more severe in the morning (my OS can corroborate this, and it is not unusual), and the assessor did not even notice my ankle splint. If I was asked to bend my foot, they would see just how limited my ROM is; as well as how weakened my ankle actually is (as well as surgical scars, being able to feel the pins etc). Could I walk 200 metres? Sure! But the cumulative effect of doing so, pain wise, tiredness (my gait is altered, my biomechanics are "off" and so I putting more strain on specific joints when walking) would mean I do so with a lot of pain, and in a longer period of time than someone without my specific joint problems.
Yes I got the 4 points for the more than 50 less than 200. Im sorry about that, was badly distracted when I made my original post (had been at a funeral earlier).
If you get severe pain when walking then no matter what, you can only legally walk the distance you walked before the pain starts. You might walk the full 50m, but if you get pain 10m in then you can only walk 10m.
Original post by hmurg
If you get severe pain when walking then no matter what, you can only legally walk the distance you walked before the pain starts. You might walk the full 50m, but if you get pain 10m in then you can only walk 10m.
That is not the test for PIP (indeed although it is a better description of DLA it isn't perfect for that either)
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by nulli tertius
That is not the test for PIP (indeed although it is a better description of DLA it isn't perfect for that either)
It is actually part of the test for PIP? I should probably know since I won on that basis and talked to a professional about it. It's safely, reliably and continually - the pain comes under safely.
Original post by nulli tertius
That is not the test for PIP (indeed although it is a better description of DLA it isn't perfect for that either)
It is. You have to be able to do the task in safe, reliable manner without pain. And it even says that on the form.
Original post by hmurg
It is actually part of the test for PIP? I should probably know since I won on that basis and talked to a professional about it. It's safely, reliably and continually - the pain comes under safely.
I am a professional, a solicitor, and I train CAB advisers.
It is not "safely reliably and continually" it is "safely, to an acceptable standard, repeatedly and within a reasonable time period." (Regulation 4 (2A)).
The idea that a task cannot be performed safely by someone who is pain, is purely your invention and I can assure you that assessors and appeal tribunals are finding people who are walking in pain to be able to walk safely every day of the week. The old DLA test disregarded entirely walking that was undertaken whilst in "severe discomfort" but severe discomfort was treated as being more than bearable pain.
PS I note the other poster's comment about the questionnaire and withdraw my comment that this is your invention. It is still not correct however.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Tiger Rag
It is. You have to be able to do the task in safe, reliable manner without pain. And it even says that on the form.
The questionnaire asks a number of questions whose wording and meaning differs from the Regulations. It is a significant fault with the system.
The following isn't the law either, but it is the internal guidance to assessors.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/519147/pip-assessment-guide.pdf
Read paragraphs 3.3.41 and 42
You see that claimant doesn't win because of his pain from the outset of walking. He would have been assessed to descriptor B but for the "repeatedly" issue that gets him descriptor E
Original post by nulli tertius
I am a professional, a solicitor, and I train CAB advisers.
It is not "safely reliably and continually" it is "safely, to an acceptable standard, repeatedly and within a reasonable time period." (Regulation 4 (2A)).
The idea that a task cannot be performed safely by someone who is pain, is purely your invention and I can assure you that assessors and appeal tribunals are finding people who are walking in pain to be able to walk safely every day of the week. The old DLA test disregarded entirely walking that was undertaken whilst in "severe discomfort" but severe discomfort was treated as being more than bearable pain.
PS I note the other poster's comment about the questionnaire and withdraw my comment that this is your invention. It is still not correct however.
It is not "safely reliably and continually" it is "safely, to an acceptable standard, repeatedly and within a reasonable time period." (Regulation 4 (2A)).
The idea that a task cannot be performed safely by someone who is pain, is purely your invention and I can assure you that assessors and appeal tribunals are finding people who are walking in pain to be able to walk safely every day of the week. The old DLA test disregarded entirely walking that was undertaken whilst in "severe discomfort" but severe discomfort was treated as being more than bearable pain.
PS I note the other poster's comment about the questionnaire and withdraw my comment that this is your invention. It is still not correct however.
Yes it is. I had help from my local council in regards to my tribunal and the person who helped me stated this to the medical staff at the tribunal. By law, you can only walk up to the point that the pain starts, however the DWP often tries to ignore that and does not mention it in their criteria, however it is still part of it and the medical professionals at the tribunals all know this. The DLA test still applies to the PIP test, but is not mentioned whatsoever which is how the DWP are getting away with not awarding PIP to so many people who are disabled.
Appeal this as soon as you can. I failed my assessment by one point and the guy put that I did not need any help with medications when I actually need help to do so properly and made this very clear in the assessment. I unfortunately didn't appeal because, and as stupid as it sounds, I put the letter down and forgot about it completely. I only ever remembered at night in bed, and even writing it all over the house and making alarms to get it sorted I still just could never get myself together enough to get it done, although I'm reapplying again a year later. Make sure you gather evidence, such as a doctor's note, to back you up if you can. Explain why the assessor was wrong and why you deserve it. There should be help with the appeals process online.
Original post by hmurg
Yes it is. I had help from my local council in regards to my tribunal and the person who helped me stated this to the medical staff at the tribunal. By law, you can only walk up to the point that the pain starts, however the DWP often tries to ignore that and does not mention it in their criteria, however it is still part of it and the medical professionals at the tribunals all know this. The DLA test still applies to the PIP test, but is not mentioned whatsoever which is how the DWP are getting away with not awarding PIP to so many people who are disabled.
Please just accept you are wrong.
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