Thousands of ex-pats living in Spain forced to return home due to Brexit.
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Original post by Studentus-anonymous
Ignoring your doom & gloom predictions aside (how'd that work for you guys during the refurendum run-up?), I'd say considering the state of Spain's massive unemployment figures, I can see a lot of Spaniards being quite pleased with the lack of competition from foreigners for local jobs, wouldn't you say?
What's that, you think the convenience of some British expats trumps the right of Spaniards themselves to be able to live and work in their own country?
Your rhetoric aside, the EU is bad for business, it's bad for the UK in the long run, it's certainly bad for places like Spain.
The inconvenience of a visa/residency application is a small price to pay for returning some semblance of hope for either country in general.
Anyway, I reckon your local chemists can provide you with some ointment if your butt's hurting too much.
What's that, you think the convenience of some British expats trumps the right of Spaniards themselves to be able to live and work in their own country?
Your rhetoric aside, the EU is bad for business, it's bad for the UK in the long run, it's certainly bad for places like Spain.
The inconvenience of a visa/residency application is a small price to pay for returning some semblance of hope for either country in general.
Anyway, I reckon your local chemists can provide you with some ointment if your butt's hurting too much.
How many expats in Spain are actually seeking employment, are the vast majority not wealthy pensioners that are drawing a pension from the UK, having healthcare either provided privately or paid for by the UK, and as such the cost to Spain to keep them is very low, while almost all their economic activity helps Spain?
Everybody knows that such deportations are unlikely, nobody wants that sort of chaos.
Original post by 999tigger
What will need to be sorted out ia what happens to the existing expats currently living in Europe and that will depend on what we do about the EU citizens living in the UK. If we end up sending them back or imposing restrictions, then at the very least that will be reciprocated by the EU against UK citizens.
Gisela Stewart (the Labour Brexiteer) said recently that it would not be reasonable for the UK government to retrospectively strip citizens of their rights. I'm having trouble working out what she means by that - if I currently have the unfettered right to live and work anywhere in the EU, isn't the government stripping me of my rights by leaving the EU? How is it going to do a deal with the rest of the rest of the EU to retain those rights for me?
If she means those already living in other EU states - do they lose those rights if they leave the UK to go back to the EU (or vice versa), for a month, a year, 10 years? Do their children inherit those rights?
Some joined-up thinking needed on this issue.
Original post by Juichiro
The presence of British expats does not affect the employment or residence rights of Spaniards. I think you should inform yourself before making statements like that.
Why do people call them expats? is the word immigrant too loaded?
Original post by typonaut
Gisela Stewart (the Labour Brexiteer) said recently that it would not be reasonable for the UK government to retrospectively strip citizens of their rights. I'm having trouble working out what she means by that - if I currently have the unfettered right to live and work anywhere in the EU, isn't the government stripping me of my rights by leaving the EU? How is it going to do a deal with the rest of the rest of the EU to retain those rights for me?
If she means those already living in other EU states - do they lose those rights if they leave the UK to go back to the EU (or vice versa), for a month, a year, 10 years? Do their children inherit those rights?
Some joined-up thinking needed on this issue.
If she means those already living in other EU states - do they lose those rights if they leave the UK to go back to the EU (or vice versa), for a month, a year, 10 years? Do their children inherit those rights?
Some joined-up thinking needed on this issue.
She isnt in charge though and she isnt even in the government, so her opinion is more or less irrelevant.
Its very much up to the government where it wants to draw the line.
Brexit will leave you working in a country outside the EU.
Its very likely those with existing rights such as permamanent leave to remain will be allowed to continue to do so. Retrispective is never a good loock, although it remains that at some stage we wont be in the EU. If soemthing else is negotiated about the movement of people then that might affect things.
Also those who have been in the UK for x period, also to be allowed to continue.
At some stage a line will be drawn, where people moving here maybe since the referendum will have transitional rights and those coming after will be on the new UK system, whatever it is.
The deal is most likely to be imo one which allows existing residents indefinite leave to remain. As for the questions thats just something they have to agree on and it will be reciprocal. Am sure they cna work out something common sense and practical.
Original post by 999tigger
Its very likely those with existing rights such as permamanent leave to remain…
There is no such thing as "permanent leave to remain" in an EU context - it just doesn't make sense. All you are illustrating is what we already know - no one actually has any idea about what will happen.
I think the most likely outcome is that the government sticks to the letter of the referendum question "Should the UK… Leave the European Union?". Their solution to this will be to end up with a trade deal that effectively makes the UK a member of the EEA - technically we'd no longer be a member of the EU, but we'd still get the four freedoms, getting told what to do by the CJEU and we'd lose our representation in the Council of Ministers and the European Parliament.
If that goes to a referendum, which is what many people are demanding - depending on the question - the proposal will be rejected, and we'll still be a member of the EU.
Oh what fun, for the sake of massaging a few people's egos.
Original post by typonaut
There is no such thing as "permanent leave to remain" in an EU context - it just doesn't make sense. All you are illustrating is what we already know - no one actually has any idea about what will happen.
I think the most likely outcome is that the government sticks to the letter of the referendum question "Should the UK… Leave the European Union?". Their solution to this will be to end up with a trade deal that effectively makes the UK a member of the EEA - technically we'd no longer be a member of the EU, but we'd still get the four freedoms, getting told what to do by the CJEU and we'd lose our representation in the Council of Ministers and the European Parliament.
If that goes to a referendum, which is what many people are demanding - depending on the question - the proposal will be rejected, and we'll still be a member of the EU.
Oh what fun, for the sake of massaging a few people's egos.
I think the most likely outcome is that the government sticks to the letter of the referendum question "Should the UK… Leave the European Union?". Their solution to this will be to end up with a trade deal that effectively makes the UK a member of the EEA - technically we'd no longer be a member of the EU, but we'd still get the four freedoms, getting told what to do by the CJEU and we'd lose our representation in the Council of Ministers and the European Parliament.
If that goes to a referendum, which is what many people are demanding - depending on the question - the proposal will be rejected, and we'll still be a member of the EU.
Oh what fun, for the sake of massaging a few people's egos.
Was there a point to this?
Its quite easy for them to produce some transitional legislation for people if they meet the criteria, then they should be allowed the leave to remain. Perfectly straightforward.
We may be in the EEA or we may not. They will obviously look for a compromise on freedon of movement, probably to put it to freedom of labpur, but thats for them to negotiate.
Doubt whatever is agreed will go to a second referendum. She was saying just the morning that Brexit means an exit. Wishful thinking. Its all a bit dull.
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
Dale 
Original post by 999tigger
Was there a point to this?
Sure, to figure out what on earth you are talking about.
Its quite easy for them to produce some transitional legislation for people if they meet the criteria, then they should be allowed the leave to remain. Perfectly straightforward.
It is now that you've thought about it. Your previous point seemed to be that, while we're in the EU, these people somehow had permanent leave to remain - which obviously is not the case.
We may be in the EEA or we may not. They will obviously look for a compromise on freedon of movement, probably to put it to freedom of labpur, but thats for them to negotiate.
If that is what happens all of this will have been a total waste of everyone's time (and money, because it's costing us all every day).
Doubt whatever is agreed will go to a second referendum. She was saying just the morning that Brexit means an exit. Wishful thinking. Its all a bit dull.
I wouldn't really conjecture on the possibilities of there being another referendum - but bear in mind that, by the time the negotiations are finished it's more than likely we will have another government. Its even possible we could have two changes of government.
It's also far from dull - the fallout from Brexit is going to rumble on for at least another five years, probably closer to ten, and the long-term effects will be ongoing.
Original post by typonaut
It is now that you've thought about it. Your previous point seemed to be that, while we're in the EU, these people somehow had permanent leave to remain - which obviously is not the case.
It is now that you've thought about it. Your previous point seemed to be that, while we're in the EU, these people somehow had permanent leave to remain - which obviously is not the case.
No it wasnt. People who have been here 4 years are entitled to permananet residence. If we leave the EU it is unlikely that would be taken away.
If that is what happens all of this will have been a total waste of everyone's time (and money, because it's costing us all every day).
Not really if you believe in brexit, then they have sovereignty back and power to make their own laws. They wont be paying £13.5 billion to Brussels.
They can trade with the rest of the world without hvaing to wait for the EU and decide terms themselves. People who voted for Brexit regard those as importnat issues.
I wouldn't really conjecture on the possibilities of there being another referendum - but bear in mind that, by the time the negotiations are finished it's more than likely we will have another government. Its even possible we could have two changes of government.
It's also far from dull - the fallout from Brexit is going to rumble on for at least another five years, probably closer to ten, and the long-term effects will be ongoing.
Funny how you are saying you wouldnt conjecture then proceed to do so. The OP is dull because its highly unlikely the UK will do anything to the existing EU citizens in the UK to boot them out or that the thousands of expats will be prejudiced either. Just alarmism. Yep its dull but you seem excited by it. Enjoy.
Original post by 999tigger
No it wasnt. People who have been here 4 years are entitled to permananet residence. If we leave the EU it is unlikely that would be taken away.
That's just not true - the amount of time the person is in the country and when they can claim leave to remain is dependent on the class of claim they have in the first place. For EEA citizens that is five years. So, what you seem be arguing is that anyone from the EU who has been here for less than five years can be kicked out?
Not really if you believe in brexit, then they have sovereignty back and power to make their own laws. They wont be paying £13.5 billion to Brussels.
They can trade with the rest of the world without hvaing to wait for the EU and decide terms themselves. People who voted for Brexit regard those as importnat issues.
They can trade with the rest of the world without hvaing to wait for the EU and decide terms themselves. People who voted for Brexit regard those as importnat issues.
Please tell me what "Brexit" means. If you know, then you are in an elite class of people, perhaps you are even unique. Because I don't think anyone in government knows what it means, and without that I think it is impossible to say what people have achieved in their vote.
Funny how you are saying you wouldnt conjecture then proceed to do so.
It's not conjecture on the issue of another referendum to point out the simple fact that the process is going to take a long time and we could have a couple of changes of government in between.
The OP is dull because its highly unlikely the UK will do anything to the existing EU citizens in the UK to boot them out or that the thousands of expats will be prejudiced either. Just alarmism. Yep its dull but you seem excited by it. Enjoy.
Ministers have said there will be cut-off dates, and that they aren't speculating on what might happen - again, you seem to know more than them.
Original post by 999tigger
.
Funny how you are saying you wouldnt conjecture then proceed to do so. The OP is dull because its highly unlikely the UK will do anything to the existing EU citizens in the UK to boot them out or that the thousands of expats will be prejudiced either. Just alarmism. Yep its dull but you seem excited by it. Enjoy.
Funny how you are saying you wouldnt conjecture then proceed to do so. The OP is dull because its highly unlikely the UK will do anything to the existing EU citizens in the UK to boot them out or that the thousands of expats will be prejudiced either. Just alarmism. Yep its dull but you seem excited by it. Enjoy.
Original post by typonaut
Ministers have said there will be cut-off dates, and that they aren't speculating on what might happen - again, you seem to know more than them.
Ministers have said there will be cut-off dates, and that they aren't speculating on what might happen - again, you seem to know more than them.
This is going to be incredibly complicated and I will explain why.
EU citizens have a right of residence while they are exercising EU Treaty rights and a right of permanent resident when they have exercised EU Treaty rights for 5 years.
However not all EU rights give permanent residence, particularly rights derived from being the primary carer of a child.
Many EU citizens who have been here for well over 5 years have not acquired permanent residence because there are breaks their exercise of EU Treaty rights. For example an Italian woman who works for 3 years, marries a Brit, doesn't work, divorces after 10 years and then works for 2 years, will not have a right of permanent residence, because she was not exercising EU Treaty rights during her marriage but almost certainly did not seek leave to remain in the UK under UK law arising from her marriage because no-one was seeking to throw her out. She had a right of entry but not residence under EU law and a right of access to heath services etc.
I doubt they'll send expats back but what people don't seem to understand when *****ing on about immigration is that there are 2 million Brits living in the EU. We send off our retirees and they send us their skilled young workers. That's a hell of a good deal.
Original post by Fenice
Just so no one is in any doubt:
The Prime Minister, the German Chancellor and every minstrel in Whitehall doesn't know any of this
The OP has absolutely no idea what they are talking about.
The Prime Minister, the German Chancellor and every minstrel in Whitehall doesn't know any of this
The OP has absolutely no idea what they are talking about.
The Telegraph reports that 100 ex-pats are leaving Spain each day because of BREXIT fear. So already BREXIT has NEGATIVELY affected hundreds and thousands of people.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/03/29/brexit-would-trigger-exodus-of-british-expats-from-europe/
I hope anyone who voted brexit is now beginning to feel ashamed.
Original post by typonaut
-
When that new minister was talking about the cut off dates, he was talking about it in the context of people rushing to get into the UK before it leaves the EU, if there really was a significant surge, then they would consider putting a cut off date on them like if they came to the UK after the referendum result, they wouldn't have a right to stay indefinitely. He also said that EU nationals who are already living here would have their rights protected (at least that's what he wants)
Original post by lolakirk
Lmao nothing is goin to happen to expats abroad / EU nationals in the UK, it is in no one's interest and nobody wants to send 'anyone home' this has been repeated by over and over again by politicians.
But they are leaving... Why are you in such denial? Do you not want to be looked at as a bad person?
It was bad to vote Brexit - but you can still change you mind and help fight to get Owen Smith elected leader of Labour.
Original post by Ambitious1999
Over then next few years there will be huge exodus of Brits living and working in Spain as freedom of working and residency will cease to exist as Britain is no longer part of the EU. However the retired may not be affected as much as working age people. There will be no chance for any British citizen to claim unemployment benefits in Spain which they can do now.
Working or Studying in EU countries like Spain will still be possible but will require a work permit for which only those with essential skills need apply such as teaching, healthcare etc.
There will also be a quota on the numbers of Brits allowed to work or study in the EU.
Basically if you want to work in a beach bar you need not apply as such jobs will be offered to locals and fellow EU Citizens. Brits will no longer have that right unless they have a valued skill like teaching.
This means thousands of Brits returning home jobless and homeless. But never mind everyone's happy we got Brexit by a huge landslide majority!
Working or Studying in EU countries like Spain will still be possible but will require a work permit for which only those with essential skills need apply such as teaching, healthcare etc.
There will also be a quota on the numbers of Brits allowed to work or study in the EU.
Basically if you want to work in a beach bar you need not apply as such jobs will be offered to locals and fellow EU Citizens. Brits will no longer have that right unless they have a valued skill like teaching.
This means thousands of Brits returning home jobless and homeless. But never mind everyone's happy we got Brexit by a huge landslide majority!
The only people this is going to affect is those idiot holiday reps in Magaluf, Ibiza, Marbella etc
Original post by KimKallstrom
So this is what we're reduced to? Just making up stuff like this?
So you want a Brexit with freedom of movement then? The post accurately describes what will happen without freedom of movement.
Original post by FredOrJohn
But they are leaving... Why are you in such denial? Do you not want to be looked at as a bad person?
It was bad to vote Brexit - but you can still change you mind and help fight to get Owen Smith elected leader of Labour.
It was bad to vote Brexit - but you can still change you mind and help fight to get Owen Smith elected leader of Labour.
Lol really I voted Brexit? I didn't know I was a British citizen AND a Leave voter, thank you for letting me know! xo
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