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The Liverpool FC Thread XIV
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Original post by Zerforax
Sad article about Agger but worth a read:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/jul/20/daniel-agger-liverpool-story-athletes-pills
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/jul/20/daniel-agger-liverpool-story-athletes-pills
Is it something that is essentially legalised doping/performance enhancing drugs.
There should be limits on the painkillers that can be taken, just to protect the players if nothing else.
I did like the parts about Rodgers and Hodgson, encapsulated their Liverpool careers perfectly.*
We have agreed a fee for Wijnaldum for £25m
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Original post by mr tim
That gives us some amazing squad depth tbh.
You have to wonder about Henderson though - with Can, Grujic and Wijnaldum also in the squad, is our captain even a guaranteed starter?
That's not even accounting for Lucas either (although there's a strong possibility he'll leave this summer).
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Lúcio
That gives us some amazing squad depth tbh.
You have to wonder about Henderson though - with Can, Grujic and Wijnaldum also in the squad, is our captain even a guaranteed starter?
That's not even accounting for Lucas either (although there's a strong possibility he'll leave this summer).
That gives us some amazing squad depth tbh.
You have to wonder about Henderson though - with Can, Grujic and Wijnaldum also in the squad, is our captain even a guaranteed starter?
That's not even accounting for Lucas either (although there's a strong possibility he'll leave this summer).
What about milner? , he got most assists for Liverpool last year and was third best player Europe statically 2016
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Original post by Fish40
What about milner? , he got most assists for Liverpool last year and was third best player Europe statically 2016
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Milner would be in the more forward positions - sorry I was talking about the two holding midfield roles we tend to have in our 4-2-3-1 formation
Original post by mr tim
Damn that moved pretty quickly in the end.
Original post by Lúcio
That gives us some amazing squad depth tbh.
You have to wonder about Henderson though - with Can, Grujic and Wijnaldum also in the squad, is our captain even a guaranteed starter?
That's not even accounting for Lucas either (although there's a strong possibility he'll leave this summer).
That gives us some amazing squad depth tbh.
You have to wonder about Henderson though - with Can, Grujic and Wijnaldum also in the squad, is our captain even a guaranteed starter?
That's not even accounting for Lucas either (although there's a strong possibility he'll leave this summer).
I'd see it as Markovic as cover on a flank and then Ings would be 3rd choice cover for up front but minor.
Probably means we won't make any more signings up front or or midfield (since Milner can cover most positions) which gives us 2 for every position and potentially another player who can cover if needed since many are flexible.
The only positions of weakness imo are the fullbacks. I'm happy with Moreno and Clyne but Gomez and Flanagan as cover looks very poor. Flanangan is considering a loan move to Burnley so we must be in for a fullback or two.
Original post by Lúcio
Milner would be in the more forward positions - sorry I was talking about the two holding midfield roles we tend to have in our 4-2-3-1 formation
Be very surprised if Wijnaldum plays a holding role for you. He was shifted backwards a few times last year and was even more ineffective than usual.
Personally think you've just signed another Lallana. He'll be brilliant some games, but utterly infuriating the vast majority of the time.
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Original post by Zerforax
Damn that moved pretty quickly in the end.
I'd see it as Markovic as cover on a flank and then Ings would be 3rd choice cover for up front but minor.
Probably means we won't make any more signings up front or or midfield (since Milner can cover most positions) which gives us 2 for every position and potentially another player who can cover if needed since many are flexible.
The only positions of weakness imo are the fullbacks. I'm happy with Moreno and Clyne but Gomez and Flanagan as cover looks very poor. Flanangan is considering a loan move to Burnley so we must be in for a fullback or two.
I'd see it as Markovic as cover on a flank and then Ings would be 3rd choice cover for up front but minor.
Probably means we won't make any more signings up front or or midfield (since Milner can cover most positions) which gives us 2 for every position and potentially another player who can cover if needed since many are flexible.
The only positions of weakness imo are the fullbacks. I'm happy with Moreno and Clyne but Gomez and Flanagan as cover looks very poor. Flanangan is considering a loan move to Burnley so we must be in for a fullback or two.
Yeah perhaps Wijnaldum is more attacking, but we already have enough AMs as it is!!
That being said, we call them "holding" roles in our 4-2-3-1, but you often see Can bursting forward and I'm sure we'll see the same from Grujic.
Clyne is as solid as we're ever gonna get and Moreno is useful in certain games.
A decent back up RB and a LB to compete with Moreno would be very useful.
Original post by Conzy210
Be very surprised if Wijnaldum plays a holding role for you. He was shifted backwards a few times last year and was even more ineffective than usual.
Personally think you've just signed another Lallana. He'll be brilliant some games, but utterly infuriating the vast majority of the time.
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Personally think you've just signed another Lallana. He'll be brilliant some games, but utterly infuriating the vast majority of the time.
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Lallana and Lovren were **** in their first seasons for Liverpool but came good in the end (although jury is still out on whether Lovren can maintain it), can't always write off players after their first season. Wijnaldum played at CM for PSV so maybe Klopp is looking at that. We arn't managed by Steve McClaren anyways
.Wijnaldum can score goals so he isn't just another Lallana and is actually an upgrade in that respect.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Lúcio
Yeah perhaps Wijnaldum is more attacking, but we already have enough AMs as it is!!
That being said, we call them "holding" roles in our 4-2-3-1, but you often see Can bursting forward and I'm sure we'll see the same from Grujic.
Clyne is as solid as we're ever gonna get and Moreno is useful in certain games.
A decent back up RB and a LB to compete with Moreno would be very useful.
That being said, we call them "holding" roles in our 4-2-3-1, but you often see Can bursting forward and I'm sure we'll see the same from Grujic.
Clyne is as solid as we're ever gonna get and Moreno is useful in certain games.
A decent back up RB and a LB to compete with Moreno would be very useful.
Wijnaldum seems to think his best position is as a number 10 but was happy to play on the flanks for Newcastle.
Asked back in March what Wijnaldum’s best position is, Benitez said: “That is the problem – because he is so good, he can play everywhere and do well.
I can see why we would use him a little deeper than Newcastle - he won't be the deep sitting player in front of the defence but he'll be the pivot which goes forward more often.
"The 25-year-old’s strengths come in his trademark third-man runs, nous when arriving into in the box, and his ability to dribble at pace to turn defence into attack and break through opposing defences.
Crucial within this is his athleticism and deceptive strength on the ball despite his 5’9″ frame, which allows him to manoeuvre and accelerate away from opponents—most notably when cutting inside as he did so often last season when deployed on Newcastle’s left wing."
http://www.thisisanfield.com/2016/07/georginio-wijnaldum-scouting-jurgen-klopps-latest-midfield-target/
So I could see him being used in a 3 man midfield or if in a midfield 2, I think he'd only play certain games where we don't need as much discipline from him.
Tbh I'd still be tempted to keep Lucas since I'm not 100% the rest of the youngsters know how to truly sit and be a shield.. perhaps a year of his experience might help them develop better?
Flanagan isn't travelling with the squad to USA so makes me think he'll go on loan. He does need games and he won't get any trying to compete with Clyne.
Interestingly:
"The Echo understands that the Reds now insist on a “75 per cent” clause for all of their loaned players, whereby clubs are penalised financially if a player they have loaned does not play in a specified ratio of matches."
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-insisting-playing-clause-loan-11641458#rlabs=2%20rt$sitewide%20p$1
Makes so much sense!
Assuming Flanagan goes out on loan, who are our fullback cover options? Just Gomez who is currently injured?
Original post by samir12
Lallana and Lovren were **** in their first seasons for Liverpool but came good in the end (although jury is still out on whether Lovren can maintain it), can't always write off players after their first season. Wijnaldum played at CM for PSV so maybe Klopp is looking at that. We arn't managed by Steve McClaren anyways .
Wijnaldum can score goals so he isn't just another Lallana and is actually an upgrade in that respect.
.Wijnaldum can score goals so he isn't just another Lallana and is actually an upgrade in that respect.
When playing CM in the premier league he couldn't handle the physicality and the pace of the game. He's too thin of a build to play deeper in my opinion.
I hope he comes good though, but it says a lot that when Rafa came in Wijnaldum was dropped because he was playing so poorly. If you can't make it into a side who are being relegated it should raise some concerns.
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Original post by Conzy210
When playing CM in the premier league he couldn't handle the physicality and the pace of the game. He's too thin of a build to play deeper in my opinion.
I hope he comes good though, but it says a lot that when Rafa came in Wijnaldum was dropped because he was playing so poorly. If you can't make it into a side who are being relegated it should raise some concerns.
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I hope he comes good though, but it says a lot that when Rafa came in Wijnaldum was dropped because he was playing so poorly. If you can't make it into a side who are being relegated it should raise some concerns.
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That is usually the case for players coming from outside the PL, Origi had the same problem but there is nothing stopping them from bulking up and adapting. I think Klopp will use him more in the midfield 3 (4-3-3) imo.
Rafa actually rates Wijnaldum and recently spoke highly of him saying he can play anywhere, his bad form was worrying but I'm sure Klopp will give him the kick up the backside, he won't last if he doesn't step up and perform.
Original post by samir12
That is usually the case for players coming from outside the PL, Origi had the same problem but there is nothing stopping them from bulking up and adapting. I think Klopp will use him more in the midfield 3 (4-3-3) imo.
Rafa actually rates Wijnaldum and recently spoke highly of him saying he can play anywhere, his bad form was worrying but I'm sure Klopp will give him the kick up the backside, he won't last if he doesn't step up and perform.
Rafa actually rates Wijnaldum and recently spoke highly of him saying he can play anywhere, his bad form was worrying but I'm sure Klopp will give him the kick up the backside, he won't last if he doesn't step up and perform.
He doesn't have the passing ability to play deeper either though, he's good at intricate passes in and around the box, but he couldn't control the tempo of a game.
And yeah I think Rafa did rate him, but it still didn't stop him from dropping Gini and Newcastle being a better team without him.
I think one issue he has is that he can play anywhere but isn't perfectly suited to any role. Last year for us he was tried on the wings, in the number 10 role and deeper but ultimately we had better players for each of those positions, even if Wijnaldum was significantly the most talented. We of course got relegated too, so with your better squad I think he'll turn into a very decent bench option fairly quickly.
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Original post by Conzy210
He doesn't have the passing ability to play deeper either though, he's good at intricate passes in and around the box, but he couldn't control the tempo of a game.
And yeah I think Rafa did rate him, but it still didn't stop him from dropping Gini and Newcastle being a better team without him.
I think one issue he has is that he can play anywhere but isn't perfectly suited to any role. Last year for us he was tried on the wings, in the number 10 role and deeper but ultimately we had better players for each of those positions, even if Wijnaldum was significantly the most talented. We of course got relegated too, so with your better squad I think he'll turn into a very decent bench option fairly quickly.
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And yeah I think Rafa did rate him, but it still didn't stop him from dropping Gini and Newcastle being a better team without him.
I think one issue he has is that he can play anywhere but isn't perfectly suited to any role. Last year for us he was tried on the wings, in the number 10 role and deeper but ultimately we had better players for each of those positions, even if Wijnaldum was significantly the most talented. We of course got relegated too, so with your better squad I think he'll turn into a very decent bench option fairly quickly.
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Dropped from? The stats show that he played in all 38 premier league games and played 3163/3420 minutes..
Original post by Conzy210
He doesn't have the passing ability to play deeper either though, he's good at intricate passes in and around the box, but he couldn't control the tempo of a game.
And yeah I think Rafa did rate him, but it still didn't stop him from dropping Gini and Newcastle being a better team without him.
I think one issue he has is that he can play anywhere but isn't perfectly suited to any role. Last year for us he was tried on the wings, in the number 10 role and deeper but ultimately we had better players for each of those positions, even if Wijnaldum was significantly the most talented. We of course got relegated too, so with your better squad I think he'll turn into a very decent bench option fairly quickly.
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And yeah I think Rafa did rate him, but it still didn't stop him from dropping Gini and Newcastle being a better team without him.
I think one issue he has is that he can play anywhere but isn't perfectly suited to any role. Last year for us he was tried on the wings, in the number 10 role and deeper but ultimately we had better players for each of those positions, even if Wijnaldum was significantly the most talented. We of course got relegated too, so with your better squad I think he'll turn into a very decent bench option fairly quickly.
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CM is our weakest area so he does have an opportunity to break into the start XI considering he can offer goals where as our current CM's can't. We will see how Klopp fits him in.
Borussia Dortmund have re-signed forward Mario Gotze on a four-year deal, subject to a medical.
Gotze, 24, made 83 Bundesliga appearances for Dortmund before joining Bayern Munich in 2013.
The size of the deal is unknown, although reports have suggested it is in the region of £20m.
"I have since his departure in 2013, always hoped that he will one day return to us," Dortmund CEO Hans-Joachim Watzke told the club website.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36853799
At least we won't have that saga for the rest of the summer then..
Gotze, 24, made 83 Bundesliga appearances for Dortmund before joining Bayern Munich in 2013.
The size of the deal is unknown, although reports have suggested it is in the region of £20m.
"I have since his departure in 2013, always hoped that he will one day return to us," Dortmund CEO Hans-Joachim Watzke told the club website.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36853799
At least we won't have that saga for the rest of the summer then..
Original post by Lúcio
Milner would be in the more forward positions - sorry I was talking about the two holding midfield roles we tend to have in our 4-2-3-1 formation
Milner can play CM too
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£25m seems like a lot of money for a guy you wouldn't imagine to be a nailed on starter for us in general.
That being said, Klopp doesn't make signings for no reason and if he's prepared to spend this kind of money on Wijnaldum, we should all reserve judgement until we've seen him play a few games for us.
That being said, Klopp doesn't make signings for no reason and if he's prepared to spend this kind of money on Wijnaldum, we should all reserve judgement until we've seen him play a few games for us.
Original post by Lúcio
£25m seems like a lot of money for a guy you wouldn't imagine to be a nailed on starter for us in general.
That being said, Klopp doesn't make signings for no reason and if he's prepared to spend this kind of money on Wijnaldum, we should all reserve judgement until we've seen him play a few games for us.
That being said, Klopp doesn't make signings for no reason and if he's prepared to spend this kind of money on Wijnaldum, we should all reserve judgement until we've seen him play a few games for us.
Well Jordan Ibe did go for £15m and Newcastle bought Wijnaldum for around the same price last season so it doesn't make the £25m seem as bad although it is still high, the market is just ridiculously inflated now.
(edited 7 years ago)
£25m is fine. There are some on social media comparing it to Gotze or Allen fees- they are in the last year of their contract.
If Wijnaldum was still captain of PSV some of the moaners would have no problem; it's just the English league stereotypical signing snobbery. He was class of PSV, stood out in an abysmal Newcastle team.
If Klopp sees him in a midfield 2, then Henderson is in trouble especially with how Grujic has been (I know it's only preseason but it's pretty obvious who's the better finisher).
There are 3 options I think. A 4-2-3-1 with Wijnaldum partnering Can, a 4-2-3-1 with Wijnaldum in an attacking trio with Coutinho, Firmino or Mane (beginning of the end for Lallana hopefully), or a 4-3-3 with Wijnaldum in the midfield trio with Can and, hopefully, Grujic rather than Henderson.
Anyway, has anyone seen this? Apparently the Liverpool hotel requirements. https://twitter.com/Sports_Hangout/status/756160915830149120
"Please ensure Henderson and Lallana have bedrooms next to each other." I cannot stand either of them let alone one being our CAPTAIN.
If Wijnaldum was still captain of PSV some of the moaners would have no problem; it's just the English league stereotypical signing snobbery. He was class of PSV, stood out in an abysmal Newcastle team.
If Klopp sees him in a midfield 2, then Henderson is in trouble especially with how Grujic has been (I know it's only preseason but it's pretty obvious who's the better finisher).
There are 3 options I think. A 4-2-3-1 with Wijnaldum partnering Can, a 4-2-3-1 with Wijnaldum in an attacking trio with Coutinho, Firmino or Mane (beginning of the end for Lallana hopefully), or a 4-3-3 with Wijnaldum in the midfield trio with Can and, hopefully, Grujic rather than Henderson.
Anyway, has anyone seen this? Apparently the Liverpool hotel requirements. https://twitter.com/Sports_Hangout/status/756160915830149120
"Please ensure Henderson and Lallana have bedrooms next to each other." I cannot stand either of them let alone one being our CAPTAIN.
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