Losing my faith? Please read!
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All comments till 11 are from muslims so I'd like to give a different opinion.
I am an ex-christian and although my case is not exactly the same christianity and islam have actually much in common especially in comparison to other religions such as buddhism .
It was the most painful year of my life and I lost the meaning of it all.
People say ' God acts in mysterious ways ' but what I noticed is that ' God acts in paranoid ways ( should he exist in the first place of course )'
I realised that what religions are actually doing is not providing humanity with a complete theory about what is going on in this universe and why we are here , but rather what humanity desperately want to be true not what is true ( this might be helpful : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLj4iwa0__8 )
We as humanity are in great pain . We suffer so much in this short period that we live and then we die leaving nothing behind but ashes or a corpse and then we have intelligence so that we understand the futility (unlike other animals that live perfectly fine). After all this how could humanity survive without all those stories that give to itself a reason to exist ? But then isn't it better if we became realistic and face at least some of the problems that we have so that we suffer less ?
I am an ex-christian and although my case is not exactly the same christianity and islam have actually much in common especially in comparison to other religions such as buddhism .
It was the most painful year of my life and I lost the meaning of it all.
People say ' God acts in mysterious ways ' but what I noticed is that ' God acts in paranoid ways ( should he exist in the first place of course )'
I realised that what religions are actually doing is not providing humanity with a complete theory about what is going on in this universe and why we are here , but rather what humanity desperately want to be true not what is true ( this might be helpful : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLj4iwa0__8 )
We as humanity are in great pain . We suffer so much in this short period that we live and then we die leaving nothing behind but ashes or a corpse and then we have intelligence so that we understand the futility (unlike other animals that live perfectly fine). After all this how could humanity survive without all those stories that give to itself a reason to exist ? But then isn't it better if we became realistic and face at least some of the problems that we have so that we suffer less ?
Original post by uh5rc
What about Shirk.. That is considered the unforgivable. If Allah swt is all forgiving why wouldn't forgive that. He forgives murder... Doesn't that make you think he is a little egoistic?
'Allaah has told us that he will forgive all sins for the one who repents to Him. He says (interpretation of the meaning): “Say: ‘O ‘Ibaadi (My slaves) who have transgressed against themselves (by committing evil deeds and sins)! Despair not of the Mercy of Allaah, verily, Allaah forgives all sins. Truly, He is Oft‑Forgiving, Most Merciful’”[al-Zumar 39:53] This includes all sins, even shirk. Whoever repents, Allaah will accept his repentance. '
doing research on your own is clearly is your weak point, i just googled that. Are you sure you're not a troll :/
Original post by uh5rc
I saw this question on Dr Zaik Naik show and he didn't even answer it properly. I have lost all respect for that man. Nouman Ali Khan is a amazing public speaker.
naik is a bafoon. I think you should really listen to modern Muslim speakers like nouman ali khan and mehdi hasan.
My RE teacher (who is a shia muslim) is also a really nice person to talk to about islam, I can pm you his twitter @ if you want?
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by uh5rc
What about Shirk.. That is considered the unforgivable. If Allah swt is all forgiving why wouldn't forgive that. He forgives murder... Doesn't that make you think he is a little egoistic? I saw this question on Dr Zaik Naik show and he didn't even answer it properly. I have lost all respect for that man. Nouman Ali Khan is a amazing public speaker.
Don't worry; most intelligent people, Muslim (@IndianMuslim) or otherwise, share that position.
Anyway, you said in your OP that one of the groups of people you want to consult with are former Muslims. I would tag some such people, but then I'd be accused of 'ganging up'/'calling backup', so if/when you feel like it, you can post in the Ex-Muslim Society.
Good luck.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by uh5rc
Thats not my point atheist are welcome too. If you think religion is a watse you could save someone so much time. Think of this as a a healthy debate.
When did I say religion was a waste?
I always see threads like this as "healthy debate"
Original post by Cobalt_
When did I say religion was a waste?
I always see threads like this as "healthy debate"
I always see threads like this as "healthy debate"
Excellent.
I feel like I am getting a lot from this thread.
Now some of you have said yes you need to be more liberal and yes that local imam is a moron. Doesn't the Quran say you need to pray 5 times a day though? Obviously those muslims such as Dr Zaik have done so much research. How can you say he is wrong when he gives you direct evidence from the Quran.
Original post by uh5rc
Excellent.
I feel like I am getting a lot from this thread.
Now some of you have said yes you need to be more liberal and yes that local imam is a moron. Doesn't the Quran say you need to pray 5 times a day though? Obviously those muslims such as Dr Zaik have done so much research. How can you say he is wrong when he gives you direct evidence from the Quran.
I feel like I am getting a lot from this thread.
Now some of you have said yes you need to be more liberal and yes that local imam is a moron. Doesn't the Quran say you need to pray 5 times a day though? Obviously those muslims such as Dr Zaik have done so much research. How can you say he is wrong when he gives you direct evidence from the Quran.
edit: Could we link this to radicalistion then? Like how people say the Quran is too blame for terrorism?
Original post by Vesniep
All comments till 11 are from muslims so I'd like to give a different opinion.
I am an ex-christian and although my case is not exactly the same christianity and islam have actually much in common especially in comparison to other religions such as buddhism .
It was the most painful year of my life and I lost the meaning of it all.
People say ' God acts in mysterious ways ' but what I noticed is that ' God acts in paranoid ways ( should he exist in the first place of course )'
I realised that what religions are actually doing is not providing humanity with a complete theory about what is going on in this universe and why we are here , but rather what humanity desperately want to be true not what is true ( this might be helpful : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLj4iwa0__8 )
We as humanity are in great pain . We suffer so much in this short period that we live and then we die leaving nothing behind but ashes or a corpse and then we have intelligence so that we understand the futility (unlike other animals that live perfectly fine). After all this how could humanity survive without all those stories that give to itself a reason to exist ? But then isn't it better if we became realistic and face at least some of the problems that we have so that we suffer less ?
I am an ex-christian and although my case is not exactly the same christianity and islam have actually much in common especially in comparison to other religions such as buddhism .
It was the most painful year of my life and I lost the meaning of it all.
People say ' God acts in mysterious ways ' but what I noticed is that ' God acts in paranoid ways ( should he exist in the first place of course )'
I realised that what religions are actually doing is not providing humanity with a complete theory about what is going on in this universe and why we are here , but rather what humanity desperately want to be true not what is true ( this might be helpful : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLj4iwa0__8 )
We as humanity are in great pain . We suffer so much in this short period that we live and then we die leaving nothing behind but ashes or a corpse and then we have intelligence so that we understand the futility (unlike other animals that live perfectly fine). After all this how could humanity survive without all those stories that give to itself a reason to exist ? But then isn't it better if we became realistic and face at least some of the problems that we have so that we suffer less ?
Thanks,
I will look at your video in a bit
Well... To me it seems that one of the ways in which you can make a decision on your faith is to decide on your belief in Allah/God
There are many different cases to be made for either side; the case supporting the existence of God can generalised into arguments pertaining to religion in general.. Richard Dawkins (staunch Darwinist) makes a rather strong if somewhat controversial case explaining that intelligent life can evolve randomly without the need for a sentient being in 'The Blind Watchmaker'.
One could also say that the universe and its origins can be explained by science, or that it is inconceivable that God's design for the world should be so 'flawed' (referring to the William Paley's watchmaker argument).
Also, there are several Bible references of God ordering the killing of many people in the Old Testament (some speculate that this is merely a reflection of Jewish culture at the time, to be interpreted in the context of these enlightened modern times?) although I suppose Islam perceives other religions to be untrue, so I am not sure how useful that argument really is to you.
One could also think on the basis of the First Cause argument (that every event was caused by a preceding one) which is often attributed as supporting the existence of God because he is 'the First Cause' of the universe. Personally I find this argument fundamentally flawed, as it begs the question as to who caused God, thus it implies an eternal universe.
Some of the social issues such as women's rights in the Middle East also seem to be at odds with modern society, although can this be considered a sexist misinterpretation of the Qu'ran?
Alternatively, one could be drawn to the conclusion that the world's intrinsic beauty provokes such a feeling of the numinous that a supremely beautiful being such as God may be the only logical explanation.
Moreover, contrary to the hateful message that ISIS and other such groups have conveyed, one may be drawn to the love and compassion that is prevalent throughout the religion of Islam and indeed the world (in general). Desmond Tutu (a Christian, I know!) has rightly pointed out that love far outweighs hate. But, do we need religion in order to feel love and compassion?
Crumbs, it's 2:30, I'd better give it a rest. What I have splurged above is merely a slither of the arguments that can be made for either side (consider it a starter pack if you will 😉). Thank you so much for this opportunity to reanalyse my own faith and ideas about religion, it has been most intellectually stimulating!
There are many different cases to be made for either side; the case supporting the existence of God can generalised into arguments pertaining to religion in general.. Richard Dawkins (staunch Darwinist) makes a rather strong if somewhat controversial case explaining that intelligent life can evolve randomly without the need for a sentient being in 'The Blind Watchmaker'.
One could also say that the universe and its origins can be explained by science, or that it is inconceivable that God's design for the world should be so 'flawed' (referring to the William Paley's watchmaker argument).
Also, there are several Bible references of God ordering the killing of many people in the Old Testament (some speculate that this is merely a reflection of Jewish culture at the time, to be interpreted in the context of these enlightened modern times?) although I suppose Islam perceives other religions to be untrue, so I am not sure how useful that argument really is to you.
One could also think on the basis of the First Cause argument (that every event was caused by a preceding one) which is often attributed as supporting the existence of God because he is 'the First Cause' of the universe. Personally I find this argument fundamentally flawed, as it begs the question as to who caused God, thus it implies an eternal universe.
Some of the social issues such as women's rights in the Middle East also seem to be at odds with modern society, although can this be considered a sexist misinterpretation of the Qu'ran?
Alternatively, one could be drawn to the conclusion that the world's intrinsic beauty provokes such a feeling of the numinous that a supremely beautiful being such as God may be the only logical explanation.
Moreover, contrary to the hateful message that ISIS and other such groups have conveyed, one may be drawn to the love and compassion that is prevalent throughout the religion of Islam and indeed the world (in general). Desmond Tutu (a Christian, I know!) has rightly pointed out that love far outweighs hate. But, do we need religion in order to feel love and compassion?
Crumbs, it's 2:30, I'd better give it a rest. What I have splurged above is merely a slither of the arguments that can be made for either side (consider it a starter pack if you will 😉). Thank you so much for this opportunity to reanalyse my own faith and ideas about religion, it has been most intellectually stimulating!
Original post by RedSquirrels
Well... To me it seems that one of the ways in which you can make a decision on your faith is to decide on your belief in Allah/God
There are many different cases to be made for either side; the case supporting the existence of God can generalised into arguments pertaining to religion in general.. Richard Dawkins (staunch Darwinist) makes a rather strong if somewhat controversial case explaining that intelligent life can evolve randomly without the need for a sentient being in 'The Blind Watchmaker'.
One could also say that the universe and its origins can be explained by science, or that it is inconceivable that God's design for the world should be so 'flawed' (referring to the William Paley's watchmaker argument).
Also, there are several Bible references of God ordering the killing of many people in the Old Testament (some speculate that this is merely a reflection of Jewish culture at the time, to be interpreted in the context of these enlightened modern times?) although I suppose Islam perceives other religions to be untrue, so I am not sure how useful that argument really is to you.
One could also think on the basis of the First Cause argument (that every event was caused by a preceding one) which is often attributed as supporting the existence of God because he is 'the First Cause' of the universe. Personally I find this argument fundamentally flawed, as it begs the question as to who caused God, thus it implies an eternal universe.
Some of the social issues such as women's rights in the Middle East also seem to be at odds with modern society, although can this be considered a sexist misinterpretation of the Qu'ran?
Alternatively, one could be drawn to the conclusion that the world's intrinsic beauty provokes such a feeling of the numinous that a supremely beautiful being such as God may be the only logical explanation.
Moreover, contrary to the hateful message that ISIS and other such groups have conveyed, one may be drawn to the love and compassion that is prevalent throughout the religion of Islam and indeed the world (in general). Desmond Tutu (a Christian, I know!) has rightly pointed out that love far outweighs hate. But, do we need religion in order to feel love and compassion?
Crumbs, it's 2:30, I'd better give it a rest. What I have splurged above is merely a slither of the arguments that can be made for either side (consider it a starter pack if you will 😉). Thank you so much for this opportunity to reanalyse my own faith and ideas about religion, it has been most intellectually stimulating!
There are many different cases to be made for either side; the case supporting the existence of God can generalised into arguments pertaining to religion in general.. Richard Dawkins (staunch Darwinist) makes a rather strong if somewhat controversial case explaining that intelligent life can evolve randomly without the need for a sentient being in 'The Blind Watchmaker'.
One could also say that the universe and its origins can be explained by science, or that it is inconceivable that God's design for the world should be so 'flawed' (referring to the William Paley's watchmaker argument).
Also, there are several Bible references of God ordering the killing of many people in the Old Testament (some speculate that this is merely a reflection of Jewish culture at the time, to be interpreted in the context of these enlightened modern times?) although I suppose Islam perceives other religions to be untrue, so I am not sure how useful that argument really is to you.
One could also think on the basis of the First Cause argument (that every event was caused by a preceding one) which is often attributed as supporting the existence of God because he is 'the First Cause' of the universe. Personally I find this argument fundamentally flawed, as it begs the question as to who caused God, thus it implies an eternal universe.
Some of the social issues such as women's rights in the Middle East also seem to be at odds with modern society, although can this be considered a sexist misinterpretation of the Qu'ran?
Alternatively, one could be drawn to the conclusion that the world's intrinsic beauty provokes such a feeling of the numinous that a supremely beautiful being such as God may be the only logical explanation.
Moreover, contrary to the hateful message that ISIS and other such groups have conveyed, one may be drawn to the love and compassion that is prevalent throughout the religion of Islam and indeed the world (in general). Desmond Tutu (a Christian, I know!) has rightly pointed out that love far outweighs hate. But, do we need religion in order to feel love and compassion?
Crumbs, it's 2:30, I'd better give it a rest. What I have splurged above is merely a slither of the arguments that can be made for either side (consider it a starter pack if you will 😉). Thank you so much for this opportunity to reanalyse my own faith and ideas about religion, it has been most intellectually stimulating!
amazing answer thanks
Original post by uh5rc
He talsk about how if you don't celebrate the prophet Muhammad's pbuh birthday you can't enter the 7th floor of Jannah. I stopped going to this small mosque and now go to a bigger one/ better one. Some imams are really good and really offer good perspective and advice.
Lol that is so funny. Where do they find these rulings? Pure falsehood. I'm a Muslim revert. If you are genuine and want to address your concerns then feel free to message me privately and I will try and advise you or point you to online sources. I would suggest you tone it down a bit and focus on one issue and getting it resolved with satisfactory answers rather than wanting to discuss a dozen issues at once.
If you're wondering why members are asking you to PM them it's because there's a lot of dedicated anti-Islam posters here and I don't have the intention or time to have vacuous discussions.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by uh5rc
amazing answer thanks
That's ok! Glad to have helped. By the way, I speak as a 16 year old male atheist / agnostic and living proof that you can be that, as well as completely open to religious arguments and comtemplations (I find it really interesting!)
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Inve
Lol that is so funny. Where do they find these rulings? Pure falsehood. I'm a Muslim revert. If you are genuine and want to address your concerns then feel free to message me privately and I will try and advise you or point you to online sources. I would suggest you tone it down a bit and focus on one issue and getting it resolved with satisfactory answers rather than wanting to discuss a dozen issues at once.
If you're wondering why members are asking you to PM them it's because there's a lot of dedicated anti-Islam posters here and I don't have the intention or time to have vacuous discussions.
If you're wondering why members are asking you to PM them it's because there's a lot of dedicated anti-Islam posters here and I don't have the intention or time to have vacuous discussions.
I know if comical but wallahi I heard this. After that I didn't pray behind that man. Me and my brother left the mosque. He doesn't lead the prayers anymore but I don't understand why he was given a position to talk. Should I report that man?
Excellent a muslim revert hopefully I can get some information from you. I will gladly pm you. I understand that you may not have the time
Original post by RedSquirrels
That's ok! Glad to have helped. By the way, I speak as a 16 year old male atheist / agnostic
You can't be both lol. I am 18 year old male Agnostic born in a muslim family.
Atheist = believes in no god Agnostic = believes in God. You can't be both you could however be confused.
Original post by Inve
Lol that is so funny. Where do they find these rulings? Pure falsehood. I'm a Muslim revert. If you are genuine and want to address your concerns then feel free to message me privately and I will try and advise you or point you to online sources. I would suggest you tone it down a bit and focus on one issue and getting it resolved with satisfactory answers rather than wanting to discuss a dozen issues at once.
If you're wondering why members are asking you to PM them it's because there's a lot of dedicated anti-Islam posters here and I don't have the intention or time to have vacuous discussions.
If you're wondering why members are asking you to PM them it's because there's a lot of dedicated anti-Islam posters here and I don't have the intention or time to have vacuous discussions.
Also why do you think there are so many dedicated islam posters. Some of these posters have a lot of knowledge
Original post by uh5rc
Excellent.
I feel like I am getting a lot from this thread.
Now some of you have said yes you need to be more liberal and yes that local imam is a moron. Doesn't the Quran say you need to pray 5 times a day though? Obviously those muslims such as Dr Zaik have done so much research. How can you say he is wrong when he gives you direct evidence from the Quran.
I feel like I am getting a lot from this thread.
Now some of you have said yes you need to be more liberal and yes that local imam is a moron. Doesn't the Quran say you need to pray 5 times a day though? Obviously those muslims such as Dr Zaik have done so much research. How can you say he is wrong when he gives you direct evidence from the Quran.
Mate what are you even on about. Have you smoked something?
I never said anything about Zaik or reading namaz 5 times a day. Where did that even come from...
Now you've mentioned him Zaik is a terrible scholar. He has been proven wrong countless times, hes a joke.
Original post by Cobalt_
Mate what are you even on about. Have you smoked something?
I never said anything about Zaik or reading namaz 5 times a day. Where did that even come from...
Now you've mentioned him Zaik is a terrible scholar. He has been proven wrong countless times, hes a joke.
I never said anything about Zaik or reading namaz 5 times a day. Where did that even come from...
Now you've mentioned him Zaik is a terrible scholar. He has been proven wrong countless times, hes a joke.
No, I havent smoked anything. I was trying to reply to someone else.
Original post by uh5rc
You can't be both lol. I am 18 year old male Agnostic born in a muslim family.
Atheist = believes in no god Agnostic = believes in God. You can't be both you could however be confused.
Atheist = believes in no god Agnostic = believes in God. You can't be both you could however be confused.
Ah no I know I'm not both, but I fluctuate from from one to the otherActually agnostic means you are not sure whether or not God exists
Original post by uh5rc
x
Always start from basics:
Do you believe in the existence of a creator?
This will be our starting point. Just as a side note: there are translations of the Quran into English you know
Edit: I am a revert also, and if you want to PM, idm
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Zamestaneh
Always start from basics:
Do you believe in the existence of a creator?
This will be our starting point. Just as a side note: there are translations of the Quran into English you know
Edit: I am a revert also, and if you want to PM, idm
Do you believe in the existence of a creator?
This will be our starting point. Just as a side note: there are translations of the Quran into English you know
Edit: I am a revert also, and if you want to PM, idm
Don't people argue you need to read it in Arabic to recieve the full benefits?
What made you reverT?
Original post by uh5rc
Don't people argue you need to read it in Arabic to recieve the full benefits?
What made you reverT?
What made you reverT?
Although it is true that you get reward for reciting it in Arabic, that is not the main concern right here - the main concern is you understanding Islam. If you end up not even believing in Islam, having read it in Arabic without you having understood it will be of very little benefit to you.
In short: I used to see people debate in Islam on TSR, and occasionally I would join in as an ignoramus and slate hijab or whatever, but I didn't actually know anything about Islam - TSR was the first place that I was exposed to it. For various reasons I decided to learn about Islam with sincerity, so I went to the TSR ISOC, spoke to the brothers and sisters there for a period of months, reading the Quran and commenting on my journey as I read it, trying to learn and understand, participating in discussions etc, and eventually after periods of thought and internal conflict, I was convinced that Islam was the religion from God - before I even realised I wanted to become Muslim, I was counter-arguing against non-Muslims who were chatting the same old recycled tosh, and I realised that they lacked understanding and that criticism was overhyped.
The longer answer would encompass a greater spiritual journey and trying to find out if God was real, which religion/beliefs made the most sence etc.
(edited 7 years ago)
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