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Turkey suspends human rights

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Original post by Yellow 03
Turkey has just suspended the European Convention on Human Rights following the attempted coup.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/turkey-coup-attempt-human-rights-president-erdogan-purge-turkish-military-a7148166.html

This cannot end well... I wonder what the response of the West will be.


It's good for the EU because it pushes away the chance of them every joining or even tlaking about joining many many years down the line. He has gone a little crazy. He talks about democracy, but fails to understand what its all about.

It makes the coup leaders look as though they had a point. Ironic.
:rip:

RIP Turkey's EU bid
Original post by Abstract_Prism
:rip:

RIP Turkey's EU bid


They were never ready for it. But I hope this now wakes up people like Merkel and President Obama who have been so naive in dealing with Erdogan. He is a despot

He dismissed 2,700 judges immediately after the coup; they cannot in any logical sense be considered part of the military coup, but he was obviously adhering to the old saying "Don't let a good crisis go to waste". This is Erdogan and the AKP using the coup to consolidate power
Reply 23
Avatar for xHazalx
xHazalx
1
Original post by AlexanderHam
They were never ready for it. But I hope this now wakes up people like Merkel and President Obama who have been so naive in dealing with Erdogan. He is a despot

He dismissed 2,700 judges immediately after the coup; they cannot in any logical sense be considered part of the military coup, but he was obviously adhering to the old saying "Don't let a good crisis go to waste". This is Erdogan and the AKP using the coup to consolidate power



I see what you are trying to say say, but the judges Erdogan has fired were all graduates from Fethullah Gulen's unis and schools. Gulen had infiltrated to the law system and the government would obviously try to get rid of all the people who has the possibility of working for Gulen.
Original post by Josb
The government had obviously prepared some lists long before the coup; you can't decide to fire 50,000 state employees like that. It more and more looks that they staged the coup in advance.


Im very much leaning towards the idea that it was staged. Barely a handful of battalions took part, and they expected to take over the country? Seriously? The men on the ground probably didn't know, but no general in their right mind would orchestrate a coup that feeble knowing what would happen to them if they failed.

And now Senator Palpatine... err, I mean Erdogan, has a convenient excuse to strengthen his regime.
Original post by xHazalx
I see what you are trying to say say, but the judges Erdogan has fired were all graduates from Fethullah Gulen's unis and schools. Gulen had infiltrated to the law system and the government would obviously try to get rid of all the people who has the possibility of working for Gulen.


Do you have any evidence they were all Gulenists? What they all had in common is that they were not AKP cronies who would do what the government told them to.

Gulen is basically Erdogan/AKP's Goldstein character, or his Snowball or his Trotsky. It's the convenient, mysterious character who is behind all evils in the State of Turkey. If someone slips on a banana peel, Gulen orchestrated it
Original post by Dandaman1
Im very much leaning towards the idea that it was staged. Barely a handful of battalions took part, and they expected to take over the country? Seriously? The men on the ground probably didn't know, but no general in their right mind would orchestrate a coup that feeble knowing what would happen to them if they failed.

And now Senator Palpatine... err, I mean Erdogan, has a convenient excuse to strengthen his regime.


I haven't seen evidence for that theory but nor do I exclude it. The soldiers who were involved were apparently told it was a training exercise. Many were lynched by fanatical AKP supporters, these poor 17 year old soldiers who had no idea what was going on. Apparently one of them was beheaded by a hysterical mob

It is interesting also how Gulen has become Erdogan's Goldstein figure, his Snowball. If someone in Turkey slips on a banana peel, Erdogan will claim Gulen orchestrated it
Original post by TelAviv
'but meh democricy'


If this is an attempt to mock the argument used by a group of Brexiteers, I'm afraid they can't really relate.

Yes, populism can be bad, but I think there is an important distinction to make between economic implications and democratic and social implications, although there is an overlap. You have to think where the emphasis lies.

Original post by *Stefan*
I honestly don't care anymore. Just cease talks of Turkish accession to the EU and be done with them.

Posted from TSR Mobile


the apathy...

:smile:
Everyone is getting butthurt because Erdogan is being a tad firm; so what? He has actually done a great job for Turkey and their economy and society; so what if he is trying to encourage the country to be more religious? He isn't perfect - no politician or person is - but everyone is too concerned nitpicking at things to realise that he is actually a great leader for Turkey.

God bless Erdogan, and may He guide Erdogan and the Turkish people to better
Reply 29
Avatar for _Fergo
_Fergo
19
Original post by Zamestaneh
Everyone is getting butthurt because Erdogan is being a tad firm; so what? He has actually done a great job for Turkey and their economy and society; so what if he is trying to encourage the country to be more religious? He isn't perfect - no politician or person is - but everyone is too concerned nitpicking at things to realise that he is actually a great leader for Turkey.

God bless Erdogan, and may He guide Erdogan and the Turkish people to better


You supporting a border-line tyrant (actually.... Not border-line anymore) is unsurprising.

Yes, he has done such a great job by oppressing others and elevating Muslims. Is that what you consider a great job? I wonder how you'd feel if the UK started abolishing its multi-faith basis and imposed Christianity on everyone. I guess it would be different then because you'd be the oppressed rather than the oppressor eh? This logic is hilarious - and then you complain that people criticise Islam.

So no.



Original post by Rorschach II
the apathy...

:smile:


It's not apathy as much as just having enough of them.


Posted from TSR Mobile
(edited 7 years ago)
Reply 30
Avatar for Ascend
Ascend
13
Original post by Zamestaneh
Everyone is getting butthurt because Erdogan is being a tad firm; so what? He has actually done a great job for Turkey and their economy and society; so what if he is trying to encourage the country to be more religious? He isn't perfect - no politician or person is - but everyone is too concerned nitpicking at things to realise that he is actually a great leader for Turkey.

God bless Erdogan, and may He guide Erdogan and the Turkish people to better


Such an endorsement from an Islamist who supports persecuting gays, ex-muslims, even Muslim minority groups and a myriad of other positions that go against human rights is probably one of the reasons why "everyone is getting butthurt".
Original post by Zamestaneh
Everyone is getting butthurt because Erdogan is being a tad firm; so what? He has actually done a great job for Turkey and their economy and society; so what if he is trying to encourage the country to be more religious? He isn't perfect - no politician or person is - but everyone is too concerned nitpicking at things to realise that he is actually a great leader for Turkey.

God bless Erdogan, and may He guide Erdogan and the Turkish people to better


It is quite easy to praise a tyrant when you don't live under his rule, but rather live in a democratic society where your human rights are upheld. Your arguments sounds like the same arguments used by Stalinists. After all, Stalin helped modernise the Soviet nation and improved their economy and education system.

I guess you also support Erdogan's financial support of ISIS?
Original post by *Stefan*
You supporting a border-line tyrant (actually.... Not border-line anymore) is unsurprising.

Yes, he has done such a great job by oppressing others and elevating Muslims. Is that what you consider a great job? I wonder how you'd feel if the UK started abolishing its multi-faith basis and imposed Christianity on everyone. I guess it would be different then because you'd be the oppressed rather than the oppressor eh? This logic is hilarious - and then you complain that people criticise Islam.

So no.





It's not apathy as much as just having enough of them.


Posted from TSR Mobile


I dont usually follow turkish news and politics much but may i ask 3 things?
Whilst perhaps increasing religiosity, how has erdogan encouraged persecution of minorities?
If turkey has vowed to fight against isis? Why would they support them financiallý? Where's the proof
Name some of erdogans worst policies he's enforced

Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Rorschach II
If this is an attempt to mock the argument used by a group of Brexiteers, I'm afraid they can't really relate.

Yes, populism can be bad, but I think there is an important distinction to make between economic implications and democratic and social implications, although there is an overlap. You have to think where the emphasis lies.


I intended no relation to Brexit.

The 'but its democracy so dictator Erdogan is ok' argument is being commonly used by conservative Muslims to justify his actions and continue to praise him.

The Turkish people voted for a President, not a Dictator.
Original post by *Stefan*
You supporting a border-line tyrant (actually.... Not border-line anymore) is unsurprising.

Yes, he has done such a great job by oppressing others and elevating Muslims. Is that what you consider a great job? I wonder how you'd feel if the UK started abolishing its multi-faith basis and imposed Christianity on everyone. I guess it would be different then because you'd be the oppressed rather than the oppressor eh? This logic is hilarious - and then you complain that people criticise Islam.

So no.





It's not apathy as much as just having enough of them.


Posted from TSR Mobile


On paper, Turkey is almost completely Muslim, whereas only 59.5% of the UK is Christian, so 'elevating Muslims' is elevating the majority of the population, whereas to impose Christianity would be against 40.5% of Britain. In any case, I have already stated on other threads in the past that if living as a Muslim got difficult here I would move abroad, and I have no issue with that - I wouldn't instigate a coup or a rebellion.

Original post by Ascend
Such an endorsement from an Islamist who supports persecuting gays, ex-muslims, even Muslim minority groups and a myriad of other positions that go against human rights is probably one of the reasons why "everyone is getting butthurt".


If I recall, his political party hasnt introduced anything which targets these groups yet, so it's minor.

Original post by The Epicurean
It is quite easy to praise a tyrant when you don't live under his rule, but rather live in a democratic society where your human rights are upheld. Your arguments sounds like the same arguments used by Stalinists. After all, Stalin helped modernise the Soviet nation and improved their economy and education system.

I guess you also support Erdogan's financial support of ISIS?


Even if I lived under his rule, you are telling me that I'd object? He's not massacring civilians or tortuting people :lol: He pales in comparison to other dictators.

Do you have any proof that Erdoğan is funding ISIS this very day?
Original post by Zamestaneh
Even if I lived under his rule, you are telling me that I'd object? He's not massacring civilians or tortuting people :lol: He pales in comparison to other dictators.


Except the Kurdish civilians being killed (for example the Mardin massacre and the Dersim massacre) and the allegations that generals involved in the coup are being tortured.

Do you have any proof that Erdoğan is funding ISIS this very day?


Mr Erdogan turns a blind eye to the importing of oil from ISIS held oil refineries. This money earned through oil is a vital life line for ISIS. By not clamping dow on this, Erdogan is indirectly funding and supporting ISIS

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/19/-sp-islamic-state-oil-empire-iraq-isis
Original post by Zamestaneh
On paper, Turkey is almost completely Muslim, whereas only 59.5% of the UK is Christian, so 'elevating Muslims' is elevating the majority of the population, whereas to impose Christianity would be against 40.5% of Britain. In any case, I have already stated on other threads in the past that if living as a Muslim got difficult here I would move abroad, and I have no issue with that - I wouldn't instigate a coup or a rebellion.



If I recall, his political party hasnt introduced anything which targets these groups yet, so it's minor.



Even if I lived under his rule, you are telling me that I'd object? He's not massacring civilians or tortuting people :lol: He pales in comparison to other dictators.

Do you have any proof that Erdoğan is funding ISIS this very day?


There's been some murmurings about how Turkey will change socially under Erdogan.

Q: How does every Islamic joke start?
A: By looking over your shoulder.
Reply 37
Avatar for Josb
Josb
6
Original post by Zamestaneh
On paper, Turkey is almost completely Muslim, whereas only 59.5% of the UK is Christian, so 'elevating Muslims' is elevating the majority of the population, whereas to impose Christianity would be against 40.5% of Britain. In any case, I have already stated on other threads in the past that if living as a Muslim got difficult here I would move abroad, and I have no issue with that - I wouldn't instigate a coup or a rebellion.


Turkey is not 100% Sunni Muslim. The Alevi are reportedly persecuted there.
Original post by The Epicurean
Except the Kurdish civilians being killed (for example the Mardin massacre and the Dersim massacre) and the allegations that generals involved in the coup are being tortured.



Mr Erdogan turns a blind eye to the importing of oil from ISIS held oil refineries. This money earned through oil is a vital life line for ISIS. By not clamping dow on this, Erdogan is indirectly funding and supporting ISIS

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/19/-sp-islamic-state-oil-empire-iraq-isis


What has the Mardin and Dersim massacres got to do with Erdogan - the Mardin Massacre wasn't perpetrated by the state, and the Dersim Massacre was committed in the 30's... I haven't heard any claims about the generals being tortured.

That article hardly implicates Turkey
Erdogan should be taken before the Hague and convicted of crimes against humanity.

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