Fired from job, how can I explain myself in future interviews?
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Original post by threeportdrift
Yup, and you don't fill them in. The only information an employer should be asking for is information that they have described in the JD because they will be using to determine an applicant's potential for the role. You are not obliged to answer any other questions that HR have randomly decided to ask for, that is not relevant to your competence to do the role.
If the JD says, for example, 'Must not have been dismissed from previous role or have had pending disciplinary procedures', or 'Must have been on a basic salary of at least £25k', then they are legitimate questions to ask and they must be answered. But generally, why you left and what salary you were on are not pertinent to the Job Description which is what employers should be judging your application on.
As you aren't scored on this information, not filling it in won't make any difference to your potential to be shortlisted for interview. It might make it more likely that you are asked about it at interview, if an HR person is in the room, but generally the line-managers have better things to worry about.
Don't let the HR empire and 'hiring by conformity' take over common sense and judgement!
If the JD says, for example, 'Must not have been dismissed from previous role or have had pending disciplinary procedures', or 'Must have been on a basic salary of at least £25k', then they are legitimate questions to ask and they must be answered. But generally, why you left and what salary you were on are not pertinent to the Job Description which is what employers should be judging your application on.
As you aren't scored on this information, not filling it in won't make any difference to your potential to be shortlisted for interview. It might make it more likely that you are asked about it at interview, if an HR person is in the room, but generally the line-managers have better things to worry about.
Don't let the HR empire and 'hiring by conformity' take over common sense and judgement!
This is very misguided and not good advice to those who are trying to find good jobs out there. Of course these things matter, and employers have every right to ask them. They have nothing to do with HR fodder (I do not work in HR myself).
The interview questions and the main body of someone's application should indeed be focused on the JD and the person spec. But the employment history and education history is also part of the application (not part of the JD), and the reason I would want to know at the application stage what salary they were on is simply because it gives me an idea of the seniority of the role they held in their previous job and the level of responsibility they had, and helps me filter out unsuitable candidates. The same job title (e.g. project manager) can be an admin role on 22K a year or it can be a senior highly skilled role on 60K a year. Job descriptions are by their nature generic and high level and a lot of people out of naivete or lack of insight often apply to jobs that are completely outside their calibre. It is a legitimate question and goes some way in allowing me not to waste both theirs and my time.
And I have every right to ask why they left and ask more information if they say they have been fired. Why would you think it is not common sense that a manager would want and have the right to know if the person they are trusting with a job has had serious conduct issues before?
This has nothing to do with HR empires and everything to do with common sense.
Employers aren't evil if you say you made a genuine mistake and, most importantly, understand why you shouldn't do it again they will be fine with it. Honesty is crucial especially if you need a reference from your previous employer.
Under transferable skills in your CV add: thief.
Original post by monkyvirus
Employers aren't evil
Lies.
I would just say the truth. Not 'I got fired because of a breach' but something along the lines of what you wrote there. That during a stressful work period you wanted to help the team more and because of the stress made a mistake which you regretted after but it meant that you had to leave. It's the truth and everyone makes mistakes. At least you can say you've learned from it. You can spin it in a positive way without lying. You don't want to lie like others suggested only for them to call your old boss for references
Original post by Yellow 03
This is very misguided and not good advice to those who are trying to find good jobs out there. Of course these things matter, and employers have every right to ask them. They have nothing to do with HR fodder (I do not work in HR myself).
The interview questions and the main body of someone's application should indeed be focused on the JD and the person spec. But the employment history and education history is also part of the application (not part of the JD), and the reason I would want to know at the application stage what salary they were on is simply because it gives me an idea of the seniority of the role they held in their previous job and the level of responsibility they had, and helps me filter out unsuitable candidates. The same job title (e.g. project manager) can be an admin role on 22K a year or it can be a senior highly skilled role on 60K a year. Job descriptions are by their nature generic and high level and a lot of people out of naivete or lack of insight often apply to jobs that are completely outside their calibre. It is a legitimate question and goes some way in allowing me not to waste both theirs and my time.
And I have every right to ask why they left and ask more information if they say they have been fired. Why would you think it is not common sense that a manager would want and have the right to know if the person they are trusting with a job has had serious conduct issues before?
This has nothing to do with HR empires and everything to do with common sense.
The interview questions and the main body of someone's application should indeed be focused on the JD and the person spec. But the employment history and education history is also part of the application (not part of the JD), and the reason I would want to know at the application stage what salary they were on is simply because it gives me an idea of the seniority of the role they held in their previous job and the level of responsibility they had, and helps me filter out unsuitable candidates. The same job title (e.g. project manager) can be an admin role on 22K a year or it can be a senior highly skilled role on 60K a year. Job descriptions are by their nature generic and high level and a lot of people out of naivete or lack of insight often apply to jobs that are completely outside their calibre. It is a legitimate question and goes some way in allowing me not to waste both theirs and my time.
And I have every right to ask why they left and ask more information if they say they have been fired. Why would you think it is not common sense that a manager would want and have the right to know if the person they are trusting with a job has had serious conduct issues before?
This has nothing to do with HR empires and everything to do with common sense.
You missed the point, which is that you don't tell the employer this information when you are one of one hundred applicants in a paper sift stage. They don't sift on the basis of this info if everything else sounds right, which it will in this case. You just have to be prepared for the questions o come up a interview, but by that stage you have got yourself from 1/100 to 1/6 and are in a much stronger position.
We aren't talking generics here, the OP was doing well in IB before they screwed up and they appear to want to continue in this career path
Original post by threeportdrift
You missed the point, which is that you don't tell the employer this information when you are one of one hundred applicants in a paper sift stage. They don't sift on the basis of this info if everything else sounds right, which it will in this case. You just have to be prepared for the questions o come up a interview, but by that stage you have got yourself from 1/100 to 1/6 and are in a much stronger position.
We aren't talking generics here, the OP was doing well in IB before they screwed up and they appear to want to continue in this career path
We aren't talking generics here, the OP was doing well in IB before they screwed up and they appear to want to continue in this career path
I have not missed the point. This information is the first thing people use to sift applicants. And I explained this in my post in detail. That's why this information is asked on application forms and is not firstly mentioned in interviews. Because it is so basic as to be able to help managers filter out unsuitable applicants in the first stage and very quickly.
Original post by 00100101
I had a great job at an investment bank (for 4.5 months). Aside from all the stress and two hours of commuting a day, I liked it. I liked my team, and I was hoping to stay permanently, but I did something very stupid a few months ago which I have now been fired for.
Without going into too much details, given how upset I am, I essentially wanted to provide more value to my team, I wanted to be a better employee for my team, I wanted to help them more, so i sent some files home to read/learn,(with the motive of helping my knowledge that would be useful for the job) because they were too large/complicated to learn during working hours. that was a big no no. it was a stupid lapse in judgement during a stressful period
Without going into too much details, given how upset I am, I essentially wanted to provide more value to my team, I wanted to be a better employee for my team, I wanted to help them more, so i sent some files home to read/learn,(with the motive of helping my knowledge that would be useful for the job) because they were too large/complicated to learn during working hours. that was a big no no. it was a stupid lapse in judgement during a stressful period
There must be some other detail you are not mentioning here. Sending work files to your personal address is not a fireable offense - otherwise half the industry would have been made redundant by now.
in fact some times sending work files to your personal email is a necessity, because sometimes when you're working from outside the office blackberry / remote access can be buggy, so you need to make sure you have the files you need to get the work done. And in fact there have been times on my deals, where I've emailed team members / clients from my personal email address because of IT issues
Also, when you join you sign a confidentiality clause, so as long the emails were just to yourself and you dont share the info with anyone else there's effectively no problem
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by shawn_o1
I was fired after a similar amount of time too. But two months later I have a new opportunity. The key is to not reveal that you were sacked. Rather,
-"pretend" that you took a contract from your previous employers knowing it would only last 4.5 months,
-speak about the role as positively as possible,
-say that you were busy fulfilling the terms of the contract and therefore didn't have time to look before it ended
This is all assuming that interviewers do not take references when they decide whether to progress with your application, of course
-"pretend" that you took a contract from your previous employers knowing it would only last 4.5 months,
-speak about the role as positively as possible,
-say that you were busy fulfilling the terms of the contract and therefore didn't have time to look before it ended
This is all assuming that interviewers do not take references when they decide whether to progress with your application, of course
That doesnt work for OP. This is banking. If OP gets an offer from another place, they will do a background check. If he tells them about the previous place he worked, they will contact them and find out he was dismissed and if he had lied about it then he can say goodbye to his offer.
Original post by 00100101
Ix
Assuming you will be looking for other roles in finance /banking?
Reality is if you get an offer from another place they will probably do a background check, and if you tell them about your previous employer, then they will contact them.
I am not sure how much info these background check companies get from your previous employers, so its actually worth you getting in touch with HR at your previous place and asking them what info they provide to background check companies.
Depending on what info they provide, then you can tailor what story you tell your new employer accordingly.
Original post by shawn_o1
I was fired after a similar amount of time too. But two months later I have a new opportunity. The key is to not reveal that you were sacked. Rather,
-"pretend" that you took a contract from your previous employers knowing it would only last 4.5 months,
-speak about the role as positively as possible,
-say that you were busy fulfilling the terms of the contract and therefore didn't have time to look before it ended
This is all assuming that interviewers do not take references when they decide whether to progress with your application, of course
-"pretend" that you took a contract from your previous employers knowing it would only last 4.5 months,
-speak about the role as positively as possible,
-say that you were busy fulfilling the terms of the contract and therefore didn't have time to look before it ended
This is all assuming that interviewers do not take references when they decide whether to progress with your application, of course
That doesnt work for OP. This is banking. If OP gets an offer from another place, they will do a background check. If he tells them about the previous place he worked, they will contact them and find out he was dismissed and if he had lied about it then he can say goodbye to his offer.
Original post by 00100101
Ix
Assuming you will be looking for other roles in finance /banking?
Reality is if you get an offer from another place they will probably do a background check, and if you tell them about your previous employer, then they will contact them.
I am not sure how much info these background check companies get from your previous employers, so its actually worth you getting in touch with HR at your previous place and asking them what info they provide to background check companies.
Depending on what info they provide, then you can tailor what story you tell your new employer accordingly.
Original post by 00100101
Ix
Assuming you will be looking for other roles in finance /banking?
Reality is if you get an offer from another place they will probably do a background check, and if you tell them about your previous employer, then they will contact them.
I am not sure how much info these background check companies get from your previous employers, so its actually worth you getting in touch with HR at your previous place and asking them what info they provide to background check companies.
Depending on what info they provide, then you can tailor what story you tell your new employer accordingly.
Original post by 00100101
Ix
Assuming you will be looking for other roles in finance /banking?
Reality is if you get an offer from another place they will probably do a background check, and if you tell them about your previous employer, then they will contact them.
I am not sure how much info these background check companies get from your previous employers, so its actually worth you getting in touch with HR at your previous place and asking them what info they provide to background check companies.
Depending on what info they provide, then you can tailor what story you tell your new employer accordingly.
Original post by 00100101
Ix
Assuming you will be looking for other roles in finance /banking?
Reality is if you get an offer from another place they will probably do a background check, and if you tell them about your previous employer, then they will contact them.
I am not sure how much info these background check companies get from your previous employers, so its actually worth you getting in touch with HR at your previous place and asking them what info they provide to background check companies.
Depending on what info they provide, then you can tailor what story you tell your new employer accordingly.
Original post by 00100101
I had a great job at an investment bank (for 4.5 months). Aside from all the stress and two hours of commuting a day, I liked it. I liked my team, and I was hoping to stay permanently, but I did something very stupid a few months ago which I have now been fired for.
Without going into too much details, given how upset I am, I essentially wanted to provide more value to my team, I wanted to be a better employee for my team, I wanted to help them more, so i sent some files home to read/learn,(with the motive of helping my knowledge that would be useful for the job) because they were too large/complicated to learn during working hours. that was a big no no. it was a stupid lapse in judgement during a stressful period
While my team really liked me and knew i had noble intentions, the decision whether to fire me wasn't up to them. I am devastated. I'm still hurting right now, but I realise my stupidity, and need to move on quickly. Moaping around helps no one and just makes getting a new job harder as time goes on.
Regarding my CV, I feel I have a lot to offer. Having the bank on my CV would add on to my value. However 4.5 months is a short time, and interviewers will invite the question "why only 4.5 months?".
While I thought the company was great, and wanted to try and better myself to improve my team, the interview will end abruptly if I say i was fired for a breach.
My team has been great and want to help regarding potential trouble or references. I appreciate that, although I don't know what I can do about the independent decision to fire me.
Could I get some advice regarding how to answer a question like "why only 4.5months"? Lies are obviously out of the question. If this were a "name a weakness?" question, I can find a negative, and phrase it in a way to make me appear as a genuine human, and as someone constantly striving to improve, but for a question on why my job was so short, I don't think I can phrase something like that better. Any help?
Without going into too much details, given how upset I am, I essentially wanted to provide more value to my team, I wanted to be a better employee for my team, I wanted to help them more, so i sent some files home to read/learn,(with the motive of helping my knowledge that would be useful for the job) because they were too large/complicated to learn during working hours. that was a big no no. it was a stupid lapse in judgement during a stressful period
While my team really liked me and knew i had noble intentions, the decision whether to fire me wasn't up to them. I am devastated. I'm still hurting right now, but I realise my stupidity, and need to move on quickly. Moaping around helps no one and just makes getting a new job harder as time goes on.
Regarding my CV, I feel I have a lot to offer. Having the bank on my CV would add on to my value. However 4.5 months is a short time, and interviewers will invite the question "why only 4.5 months?".
While I thought the company was great, and wanted to try and better myself to improve my team, the interview will end abruptly if I say i was fired for a breach.
My team has been great and want to help regarding potential trouble or references. I appreciate that, although I don't know what I can do about the independent decision to fire me.
Could I get some advice regarding how to answer a question like "why only 4.5months"? Lies are obviously out of the question. If this were a "name a weakness?" question, I can find a negative, and phrase it in a way to make me appear as a genuine human, and as someone constantly striving to improve, but for a question on why my job was so short, I don't think I can phrase something like that better. Any help?
honestly don't worry. 4.5 months is short, but luckily short enough to cover up. Don't mention it. Was this your first job? If so, I'm sure you have the qualifications to secure another great position.
Do you plan to move back into investment banking? If not, a good excuse is that you didn't like it. Many people don't last in investment banking so it won't sound odd.
To add to qualifications, if that is what it comes to, try a CFA or something like it.
Getting fired might be a regret, but don't let it hinder you. Many of the most successful people ever were fired - take Anna Wintour. Depending on how "stupid" the reason was, I'm sure someone can find a way to understand.
Original post by dancing sloth
Do not use the word 'fired'.
They thought it best you 'started again'.
Or 'had a fresh start.'
Or 'let you go.'
Just say you were tired, working very long hours and took some files home to work on there.
There was a big blow-up when the Chief found out although your Boss stood up for you and he (Boss) will be giving you a reference.
(And yes go for the drink and ask his advice.)
NEVER use the word 'fired' unless someone pushes you.
You're young.
Lots of people get 'let go' in the city.
If none of them got a second job there would be more beggars outside the Bank of England than there are.
So cheer up. You will get re-employed.
Just get those applications out there, and buy a smart new outfit.
They thought it best you 'started again'.
Or 'had a fresh start.'
Or 'let you go.'
Just say you were tired, working very long hours and took some files home to work on there.
There was a big blow-up when the Chief found out although your Boss stood up for you and he (Boss) will be giving you a reference.
(And yes go for the drink and ask his advice.)
NEVER use the word 'fired' unless someone pushes you.
You're young.
Lots of people get 'let go' in the city.
If none of them got a second job there would be more beggars outside the Bank of England than there are.
So cheer up. You will get re-employed.
Just get those applications out there, and buy a smart new outfit.
Thanks, this did cheer me up among the other posts. For most part of a week, I felt like scum that would be barred from any job in finance.
As an update to the situation. Other than this bank, I also interviewed for another bank in singapore. They still remember me/want me, so I was accepted without (another) interview.That said, they most likely don't know about the situation.
I am currently waiting for my visa to arrive, although I am a bit nervous if they ask about why my last job was so short. I had a security check for the last job, but I hadn't had one (yet?) for this new one.
I'm kinda hoping I can just have the visa accepted/start working (obviously never make this mistake ever again), and let this blow over with time
Original post by 00100101
Thanks, this did cheer me up among the other posts. For most part of a week, I felt like scum that would be barred from any job in finance.
As an update to the situation. Other than this bank, I also interviewed for another bank in singapore. They still remember me/want me, so I was accepted without (another) interview.That said, they most likely don't know about the situation.
I am currently waiting for my visa to arrive, although I am a bit nervous if they ask about why my last job was so short. I had a security check for the last job, but I hadn't had one (yet?) for this new one.
I'm kinda hoping I can just have the visa accepted/start working (obviously never make this mistake ever again), and let this blow over with time
As an update to the situation. Other than this bank, I also interviewed for another bank in singapore. They still remember me/want me, so I was accepted without (another) interview.That said, they most likely don't know about the situation.
I am currently waiting for my visa to arrive, although I am a bit nervous if they ask about why my last job was so short. I had a security check for the last job, but I hadn't had one (yet?) for this new one.
I'm kinda hoping I can just have the visa accepted/start working (obviously never make this mistake ever again), and let this blow over with time
Glad you feel a bit better.
I hope it works out for you.
Let us know.
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