The Student Room Group

Scroll to see replies

Original post by pilock
Humans dont need to eat meat. If you use common sense and logic you will find this easily. Sorry I am talking facts here- I know theres a lot of people like you who cant handle facts.


Where did I say that we need meat?

If you read my post properly you'd understand my point, but clearly you didn't, so I'll reiterate:

If it's safe, nutritious, and you like the taste, you can eat whatever you want.

So, whether we need meat or vegetables or not is irrelevant to my point. What I'm saying is that if you were starving and the only food around was a big greasy hamburger, you'd probably go for it :smile:

And since we're talking "facts" it might interest you to know that eating wild animals is in fact more "natural" than eating crops, since crops are domesticated and have been specially bred by humans for thousands of years, for most plants completely changing their taste, shape and nutrient content.

So - you eat whatever you want, I'll eat whatever I want, and we can both agree that nobody's diet is more "natural" because no such thing exists. We're foragers and persistence hunters and we eat whatever the hell we fancy.
Original post by Stiff Little Fingers
The fact that it's true makes it true. Our physiology is not that of a herbivore - we lack a number of specific adaptations for that, the ability to digest cellulose for one. Nor is it that of a carnivore - we are opportunistic omnivores; historically a predominately plant/fruit based diet with the addition of meat whenever it was available, much like our closest relatives chimpanzees and gorillas, who have been observed to eat small mammals or other primates.

As for your nonsense at the end - claws do not make a carnivore, and our lack of them doesn't make us herbivorous; our adaptation is our intellect and ability to use tools to hunt. Stomach acid is hydrochloric acid, a strong acid and activates protein digesting enzymes so your flippant sarcasm back fires.


If you think the ability to digest cellulose is what makes a herbivore a herbivore, then you should just... use google? Undigestible cellulose, also known as fiber, allows for smooth digestion to occur. Animal products contain no fiber to aid in digestion, but obviously who needs fiber because our intellect and ability to use tools to hunt help us digest the rotting corpse you just swallowed up innit

Anyway, it is scientifically proven that big brains require energy, which comes from that fatty nandos chicken you just had, oh wait, it doesn't, it comes from carbohydrates which are produced by plants - and thus, this is how our big brains evolved, cooked starches such as potatoes fueled brain evolution, and your ability to base your whole post on personal beliefs whilst simultaneously ignoring real research, thanks cooked starches!

You also state that our intellect is our adaptation. The brain uses 60% of our glucose (respiration, energy). Starch is LITERALLY chains of glucose, and you mean to tell me that us humans with those big brains evolved on fat and protein which cannot power the brain, ok ayyy lmao

To also address the stomach acid thing, we have weak stomach acid that wouldn't be able to deal with raw meat, hence why we cook meat, but I'm sure you use your intellect and hunting methods to do just that so no problem again.

Anyway, meat has been linked to many diseases, including cancer and acne. But ignore scientific research and evidence, just when you suffer the ill effects, don't wonder.
Original post by Robby2312
You're the one who should look up the facts.We dont need claws because evoloution favoured the development of big brains which means we could uses tools.Humans are almost perfectly designed for hunting hence why we're such good long distance runners.We have longer legs in comparison to most apes and we have little body hair so that we can run long distances without tiring.We're also highly social which makes is perfect for communicating with each other about where prey is kind of similar to a pack of wolves.


Did you honestly compare us to wolves, lol alright.

Wolves don't have big brains but they can hunt
Wolves are very hairy and can run longer than any human
Wolves have shorter legs but can run faster

What's your point? "Facts" lmao I'd pay good money to see you chase and kill a deer like a wolf.
Reply 103
Original post by Stiff Little Fingers
Why? Your strange denial of the existence of steak tartare means little. We can and do eat raw meat - something you'd find out quite quickly if you stopped blindly swallowing lies and propaganda. You don't think it's right to eat meat, fair enough, that's a moral decision, but don't try and pretend that eating meat is wrong on a biological level.


Posted from TSR Mobile

The landscape of food and how we have consumed it has undergone incredible changes for centuries. Throughout history, owning livestock and being able to feed it to your family was a sign of wealth and prosperity. If you had guests over, being able to feed them meat, bread and olive oil indicated that you truly cared about their wellbeing.Across the ages, these traditions and signs have not changed much. Throughout the U.S.’ most prominent metropolitan areas, one can find five-star steakhouses and meat buffets regarded as top-tier when it comes to dining. Being served a filet mignon or fresh meat cutlet is equivalent to being served as a king or queen.We all like to make justifications about our food, as this helps us enjoy our food more deeply and understand why we consume it. People from all kinds of backgrounds, including scientists, cooks and students, have posited that human tooth and jaw design is geared towards consuming meat.One of the most common arguments made for humans to eat meat is that we have canine teeth. While we do have canine teeth, human canines are nothing compared to the canine teeth exhibited by carnivores.Human Canies are blunt and wider; carnivorous canines are often inches or more in length. However, this does not mean that all creatures with canine teeth strictly eat meat. Some of the largest canines in the world belong to herbivorous animals. White-lipped peccaries gorillas and hippopotamuses all have fearsome canines, and the largest in the world actually belong to hippos. Their canine teeth have been known to grow up to 18 inches, but play no role in how hippos gather food.The hippopotamus diet consists almost entirely of grass and roots; their sizeable canines are only used for territorial disputes or self-protection. The same goes for gorillas, which feed on leaves, stems, shoots, pith and roots. Depending on the type of gorilla and the region they are in, they may feed on ants.


In light of the aforementioned facts, human intestines are about nine times one’s body length, and it typically takes 12 to 18 hours for a human to completely digest a meal. In contrast, a carnivore’s (feline’s) intestine is generally 1.5 to three times its body length, and it only takes two to four hours for a full meal to digest in its stomach. This allows meat that is rapidly decaying to pass out of the body as swiftly as possible.

Beyond this, the types of defense mechanisms and food-gathering components of a creature’s body also play into their food type. Carnivores have sharp claws on their paws or hands, and humans do not. We have flattened nails that are most conducive to handling fruits and vegetables and picking foods from trees or stems.
All of these facts taken together point to an unmistakable conclusion: humans are physically built to consume and receive optimal benefit from vegetables, fruits, nuts and seeds. This fact is reflected in human teeth, jaws, stomachs and nails. The similarities between herbivorous and frugivorous animals and humans are too many to overlook. One easy way to consider it is that the abundance of plant-based eating does not have to be confined to special situations.
I guess the OP must eat a lot of fruitcake.
I think its likely we did kill them.Humans have a long history of killing other humans we dont like.And a long history of driving species to extinction.I just dont think we ate them at least not regularly.There may have been isolated incidents.Theres also evidence to suggest that neanderthals were just as intelligent as humans.And they did interbreed because some humans have DNA from neanderthals.
Original post by Romanoff
If you think the ability to digest cellulose is what makes a herbivore a herbivore, then you should just... use google? Undigestible cellulose, also known as fiber, allows for smooth digestion to occur. Animal products contain no fiber to aid in digestion, but obviously who needs fiber because our intellect and ability to use tools to hunt help us digest the rotting corpse you just swallowed up innit


Except I didn't say that, I mentioned it as one example of adaptations herbivores have that humans do not. Also, given your last line I'm guessing you're not even going to bother responding in a mature discussion - since it sounds like you're suggesting I think we're carnivorous. We're not. We are opportunistic omnivores, our physiology makes this clear.




Anyway, it is scientifically proven that big brains require energy, which comes from that fatty nandos chicken you just had, oh wait, it doesn't, it comes from carbohydrates which are produced by plants - and thus, this is how our big brains evolved, cooked starches such as potatoes fueled brain evolution, and your ability to base your whole post on personal beliefs whilst simultaneously ignoring real research, thanks cooked starches!


Care to provide the real research showing humans are herbivorous rather than omnivorous?


You also state that our intellect is our adaptation. The brain uses 60% of our glucose (respiration, energy). Starch is LITERALLY chains of glucose, and you mean to tell me that us humans with those big brains evolved on fat and protein which cannot power the brain, ok ayyy lmao


I mean to tell you that our diet is one that contains meat. Not that we didn't eat plants as well, in reality our diet would have been predominately plant based with meat added when it was available (as I've already said once).


To also address the stomach acid thing, we have weak stomach acid that wouldn't be able to deal with raw meat, hence why we cook meat, but I'm sure you use your intellect and hunting methods to do just that so no problem again.


Gastric acid is a strong acid, usually around pH 2 or so, and it is capable of dealing with raw meat given it still activates peptidase enzymes, and still digests meat - and, as so many of this thread have pointed out, we can eat raw meat. Quite a few of those responding have done so as well, myself included.


Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by pilock
Are you really suggesting that you wont get ill if you eat raw meat? Its the number one cause of salmonella you fool.


You didn't read my first post really, did you...
Original post by EdwardBarfield9
**** off. We don't give a **** about vegetarians or vegans yet you give those of us who eat meat grief.
People eat what we want to eat. You all say that us who eat meat are muderers and cruel yet you forget that to get land for farms you have to deforest and remove other plants and kill animals. At least meat eater eat what is killed.

Just because someone eats meat does not mean they kill animals or support animal cruelty.

**** OFF


Yet you forget that to get land for animal farms you have to deforest and remove other plants and kill animals????????????

I don't care whether or not people eat meat. However eating meat does support animal cruelty. You're paying for it but are somehow not supporting it? ok

If meat eater didn't eat what is killed, the thing that is killed wouldn't be killed in the first place. doi
Reply 109
Original post by 1010marina
Where did I say that we need meat?

If you read my post properly you'd understand my point, but clearly you didn't, so I'll reiterate:

If it's safe, nutritious, and you like the taste, you can eat whatever you want.

So, whether we need meat or vegetables or not is irrelevant to my point. What I'm saying is that if you were starving and the only food around was a big greasy hamburger, you'd probably go for it :smile:

And since we're talking "facts" it might interest you to know that eating wild animals is in fact more "natural" than eating crops, since crops are domesticated and have been specially bred by humans for thousands of years, for most plants completely changing their taste, shape and nutrient content.

So - you eat whatever you want, I'll eat whatever I want, and we can both agree that nobody's diet is more "natural" because no such thing exists. We're foragers and persistence hunters and we eat whatever the hell we fancy.


Its isnt safe. Well not in the amount the average person consumes it. If you want to live an ignorant live with your head deep in the sand then go ahead, however, please dont feed people the lie that eating 10 steaks a day is healthy. You see dear theres intelligent people around that can quickly outsmart and humiliate you when you step into the big boys world and try to use ignorant untrue arguments to suit you agenda. Meat in little amounts does you no harm. Meat in the amounts it is consumed by most people leads to many more problems. I suggest you look up facts on this on the internet and dont dismiss every argument against meat as 'duh duh this is just a pure argument made by tree huggers it must be untrue meat is good duhhh duuhhhh duuhhhh'.

I honestly dont even know why I bother. You lack the capacity to think in an intelligent manner. Suppose I cant really blame you- its not your fault you dumb.
Original post by pilock
The landscape of food and how we have consumed it has undergone incredible changes for centuries. Throughout history, owning livestock and being able to feed it to your family was a sign of wealth and prosperity. If you had guests over, being able to feed them meat, bread and olive oil indicated that you truly cared about their wellbeing.Across the ages, these traditions and signs have not changed much. Throughout the U.S.’ most prominent metropolitan areas, one can find five-star steakhouses and meat buffets regarded as top-tier when it comes to dining. Being served a filet mignon or fresh meat cutlet is equivalent to being served as a king or queen.We all like to make justifications about our food, as this helps us enjoy our food more deeply and understand why we consume it. People from all kinds of backgrounds, including scientists, cooks and students, have posited that human tooth and jaw design is geared towards consuming meat.One of the most common arguments made for humans to eat meat is that we have canine teeth. While we do have canine teeth, human canines are nothing compared to the canine teeth exhibited by carnivores.Human Canies are blunt and wider; carnivorous canines are often inches or more in length. However, this does not mean that all creatures with canine teeth strictly eat meat. Some of the largest canines in the world belong to herbivorous animals. White-lipped peccaries gorillas and hippopotamuses all have fearsome canines, and the largest in the world actually belong to hippos. Their canine teeth have been known to grow up to 18 inches, but play no role in how hippos gather food.The hippopotamus diet consists almost entirely of grass and roots; their sizeable canines are only used for territorial disputes or self-protection. The same goes for gorillas, which feed on leaves, stems, shoots, pith and roots. Depending on the type of gorilla and the region they are in, they may feed on ants.


In light of the aforementioned facts, human intestines are about nine times one’s body length, and it typically takes 12 to 18 hours for a human to completely digest a meal. In contrast, a carnivore’s (feline’s) intestine is generally 1.5 to three times its body length, and it only takes two to four hours for a full meal to digest in its stomach. This allows meat that is rapidly decaying to pass out of the body as swiftly as possible.

Beyond this, the types of defense mechanisms and food-gathering components of a creature’s body also play into their food type. Carnivores have sharp claws on their paws or hands, and humans do not. We have flattened nails that are most conducive to handling fruits and vegetables and picking foods from trees or stems.
All of these facts taken together point to an unmistakable conclusion: humans are physically built to consume and receive optimal benefit from vegetables, fruits, nuts and seeds. This fact is reflected in human teeth, jaws, stomachs and nails. The similarities between herbivorous and frugivorous animals and humans are too many to overlook. One easy way to consider it is that the abundance of plant-based eating does not have to be confined to special situations.


So much of this is irrelevant nonsense. No one seriously claims we are carnivorous, they claim we are omnivorous. Yes, we have significant differences from carnivores. We also have significant differences from herbivores as well and can consume plants and fruits, and meat.


Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Romanoff
Did you honestly compare us to wolves, lol alright.

Wolves don't have big brains but they can hunt
Wolves are very hairy and can run longer than any human
Wolves have shorter legs but can run faster

What's your point? "Facts" lmao I'd pay good money to see you chase and kill a deer like a wolf.


Wolves are intelligent for animals.They are hairy but they also dont live in africa.Being hairless would help in hot climates.And wolves can run faster but the point is that humans can run for longer so humans can run and track animals for longer.That way the animal wears itself out and we can finish it off.Also early humans used to kill mammoths, which are a lot bigger than deer you might notice so to say humans arent built for hunting is definitely wrong.If we weren't built for hunting we'd have died out long ago.Humans dont need sharp teeth or claws because we developed big brains and with that things like spears that are pointy and hurt if thrown.
Reply 112
Original post by Stiff Little Fingers
So much of this is irrelevant nonsense. No one seriously claims we are carnivorous, they claim we are omnivorous. Yes, we have significant differences from carnivores. We also have significant differences from herbivores as well and can consume plants and fruits, and meat.


Posted from TSR Mobile


Ahhh yes I see you cant argue against the rational points on my post.

At the end of the day- Humans dont need to eat meat and anyone thats says so is an ignorant fool.
Reply 113
Original post by WoodyMKC
You didn't read my first post really, did you...


Yeah I did. It was the definition of stupid.
Original post by pilock
Humans dont need to eat meat. If you use common sense and logic you will find this easily. Sorry I am talking facts here- I know theres a lot of people like you who cant handle facts.


As a geology undergrad at Cambridge University I feel uniquely qualified to address your point. Humans do need to eat meat. It's what allowed human brains to expand and thus allowed us to increase our intelligence.

http://www.livescience.com/24875-meat-human-brain.html
Reply 115
Original post by !!mentor!!
As a geology undergrad at Cambridge University I feel uniquely qualified to address your point. Humans do need to eat meat. It's what allowed human brains to expand and thus allowed us to increase our intelligence.

http://www.livescience.com/24875-meat-human-brain.html

You may not understand the article (due to you not eating meat and all) so it may be worth asking a meat eater to explain it to you.

FTW.


Please cut your dick off so you dont reproduce. Thank You.
Original post by pilock
Yeah I did. It was the definition of stupid.


Your ignorance is astounding, your view on the topic is incredibly simplistic and your response shows that you didn't read my post at all. Please read the following with an open mind, and then research some of what I've said. You may learn something.

To reiterate - bacteria develops on meat once it's been stagnant and exposed to the open air (read - once the animal has been dead for a while). That's when salmonella can develop. Given that most of us buy from the supermarket or the standard butcher, a lot of the time the meat has to be cooked because it's been on the shelf for a day and had time to develop bacteria. However, buy it fresh, you can eat it raw. Again, it's common in some other countries to eat meat raw. One of my best friends is from an Italian family and they eat raw beef on a weekly basis. They visit a trusted butcher on his delivery day each week, the meat is fresh, they eat it raw. They're never ill. I've eaten it raw myself at their house one time and suffered no ill effect.

Eating raw meat is against social norms in this country, so people tend to find the behaviour shocking and in average circumstances, buying meat means you'll need to cook it. Yet, people eat their stakes "blue" or "rare" every day in the UK. It'd be considered undercooked by the standards of meats like chicken (which would indeed make you ill if undercooked), but again, it's beef, it carries less bacteria and if the meat is fresh, it won't make you ill. How do you take your stake, out of interest?
Yes, certain meats, i.e. chicken, should never be eaten raw due to their high bacterial content. However, with some meats, like certain types of fish and beef, you CAN eat it raw very safely. Most foods have expiries in which they are safe to eat, become a bit dodgy but you might get away with it, and then simply unsafe to eat - meat has a very short shelf life, that's all. Even so, beef has a longer shelf life than most other meats.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by pilock
Its isnt safe. Well not in the amount the average person consumes it. If you want to live an ignorant live with your head deep in the sand then go ahead, however, please dont feed people the lie that eating 10 steaks a day is healthy. You see dear theres intelligent people around that can quickly outsmart and humiliate you when you step into the big boys world and try to use ignorant untrue arguments to suit you agenda. Meat in little amounts does you no harm. Meat in the amounts it is consumed by most people leads to many more problems. I suggest you look up facts on this on the internet and dont dismiss every argument against meat as 'duh duh this is just a pure argument made by tree huggers it must be untrue meat is good duhhh duuhhhh duuhhhh'.

I honestly dont even know why I bother. You lack the capacity to think in an intelligent manner. Suppose I cant really blame you- its not your fault you dumb.


Attacking someone's intelligence is the surest sign that you're running out of ideas.

Once again, you haven't read my post properly so I will re-type it for the third time, in the vain hope that you'll read it: if you were starving, you'd prolly beg for one of those unhealthy stakes you were talking about. Why? Because as a species we evolved to eat whatever we could find. Berries? Sure. Nuts? Sure. Bananas? Sure. Deer? Sure.

Our bodies have numerous adaptations for persistence hunting, and if we were designed to be vegans we wouldn't have these adaptations. Look at your foot, for starters.

Once again: you can ear whatever you want and I will eat whatever I want. But trying to deny human nature is just ridiculous. We were built to eat anything so we have the luxury of choosing what to eat. Imagine being a panda, how boring. :smile:
Original post by Stiff Little Fingers
Except I didn't say that, I mentioned it as one example of adaptations herbivores have that humans do not. Also, given your last line I'm guessing you're not even going to bother responding in a mature discussion - since it sounds like you're suggesting I think we're carnivorous. We're not. We are opportunistic omnivores, our physiology makes this clear.


You said that, and I quote, "we lack a number of specific adaptations for that, the ability to digest cellulose for one" BUT WE NEED CELLULOSE ANYWAY. Would you like to give me some more physiological adaptations (or lack of) for me to refute then?

You're adamant on the idea that we're opportunistic omnivores, would you care to explain why? We get all the nutrients from plants, we need nothing from animal products to survive and yet we're opportunistic omnivores. Plant consumption yields more energy and it can be produced in greater quantities and in short time but yet we sometimes need to have some meat.

I'm responding more than maturely and at least I'm not basing my information off personal beliefs.



Original post by Stiff Little Fingers

Care to provide the real research showing humans are herbivorous rather than omnivorous?


Here's a study on fossilized feces, but I can find some more studies if you're not able to use google for yourself for some reason, and if this doesn't float your boat.

"most of which were predominantly herbivorous (26, 46, 52, 57), as is the case today"

http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-1-4684-2481-2_8


Original post by Stiff Little Fingers

Gastric acid is a strong acid, usually around pH 2 or so, and it is capable of dealing with raw meat given it still activates peptidase enzymes, and still digests meat - and, as so many of this thread have pointed out, we can eat raw meat. Quite a few of those responding have done so as well, myself included.


Human pH ranges from 4 - 5
Carnivore pH is 1 - 2

Peptidase (also known as protease) is used to digest protein, isn't only found in animals, which is what you're suggesting... Yes we can eat raw meat, that doesn't mean we should, or that we can digest it to fully get all the nutrients out of it (as we are noooooooooot adapted to).

Anyway, somehow we've focused on evolution and ancient humans. Again, many diseases are caused by meat, dairy and egg consumption. Clearly this makes the consumption of said foods extremely natural and we should because we're opportunistic omnivores as you say, but what do me and my friend science and empirical evidence know.
Original post by pilock
You **** off you ignorant fuel. This post stinks of ignorance. Please dont comment again as you are literally too stupid to talk to.

Honest to god- what a moron you really are.


I'm not ignorant at all. I hate animal cruelty however I will choose to eat meat because I want to.

Latest