Student debts wipe out most graduate pay premiums - report

What other departmental costs do you expect? Equipment, facilities, consumables etc will all be covered by central budgets. The English dept doesn't decide to build a new building - that's a university level capital investment which is then the space the English dept inhabit. If the university management decide to repurpose a building the departments affected have very little say in the matter.

You seem to misunderstand university budget management, recourse allocation and accounting practices.

As I've said, I am proposing universities to publish spending report on a departmental basis. I've stated that universities should not produce accounts only at a top level.

I am proposing a plan for X but you are giving me the solution to Y.

I understand how universities currently report and record their expenses, which is why I am proposing for change.

To manage what you're proposing every university department would become a devolved mini university. The level of waste involved would be phenomenal.

The computer science department doesn't own land or buildings or decide which cleaning contractors to use and how often the bins get emptied and negotiate their own printing contract and house their own library with their own subscriptions to journals with their own free standing student database, staff database, payroll and pension system, admissions database, accounting system, maintenance contracts and electricity, gas bills.

What you're suggesting does happen for research contracts and grants - except most grants and contracts aren't based on full economic costings (so they'll cover staff and large equipment but not the phone bill) and so are subsidised by income from other sources.

They're part of a whole. The whole makes decisions on how funds are distributed to different departments and whether to subsidise research or pay for student facilities/support.

All I'm proposing is for departments to detail their spending in greater detail. The report can of course make note of any contribution to and from central university funding. I am not trying to change the funding structure of universities, but spending data should be published openly.

E.g. A departmental spending report can detail lab supplies expense as centrally funded, but what is important is that the amount requested from the central fund is published in departmental expense report.

I'll emphasise again, the change is in data transparency, not funding structure.

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That's an interesting proposition but I'm not really sure how it would help a student make a decision? Most degrees cost far more than the tuition fee, unis get charity money, gov money, endowments etc. It would be hard to put all this together to make a coherent cost of each degree and compare like for like.

For example a degree at oxford in med for an Int student is £25k. This means UK students are getting at least an extra 16k per year free.

It is actually the average student who is worse of all. Those who do really well pay off their degree quite quick without accruing much interest. The average student spends the best part of 30 years paying it off and the rest have theirs wiped off.

Sure no one wants to be average but when you delve into the data unless you've have had a privileged background ie public school, rich parents then you have incredibly tough odds to beat.

I doubt that most Humanities degrees cost £9K a year.

You can't report on data that isn't collected. Suggesting reporting this level of detail IS a substantial change to funding structure.

And you've still yet to explain what actual benefit collecting and reporting on finances in the way you desire other than to satisfy your curiosity.

I think this is something most of us knew. I have long been a proponent of a graduate tax. This would mean those who end up going to better unis pay more for the privilege.

From the BBC
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-36916009

"The report says that in 2002, ministers put it at £400,000, but recent estimates have been more modest at about £100,000." So about £2k per year in which your interest wipes that out anyway.

I think our current system is better than no fees (just look at the mess Scotland is in)
That said it needs another overhaul - and not just small raises in fees as per the current whitepaper.

Of course these data are collected, every time my department requires central funding it E.g. Proposal to erect a new building it needs approval from the central university body. Also lab supplies are documented as they always come with invoice. This is not a change in funding structure, they have this data already.

The benefit is that students are not kept in the dark about departmental spending and what their tuition fee is being spent on specifically. Current expense categories are way too broad and unspecific. 'Other operating expenses' isn't going to tell you much. I have stated this from my previous posts. The objective is that students can understand what is being spent on by their department, where they will conduct most of their studies.

Another educational policy group also says this analysis is flawed

"Student debt does not outweigh the graduate premium"
http://wonkhe.com/blogs/analysis-student-loan-debt-graduate-premium/