Why is gender equality still not a reality in 2016?
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"In the workplace, there is still a 9.4% pay gap on average between men and women for full-time employment and when part-time employment is also included the gap extends to 19.2%. In the private sector specifically the pay gap for even for full-time employees was 17.2%! The TUC analysis of the ONS statistics showed that looking at the highest earners that gap widens, even more, reaching 54.9% for the top 2% of earners" This is highly misinterpreted, although it is true that overall men do earn more than women. However, this is a huge average of every role, and so doesn't consider individual positions, a number of hours worked (which men tend to work more), the safety of that job (men contribute 92% of workplace fatalities).
"The “glass ceiling” is even now nowhere near broken. There are much more men than women in top level jobs in politics, law, science, technology, engineering, academia, business…" Have you ever thought women aren't interested in these jobs? You don't consider that there are more women than men in nursing, veterinary care, nor that there are more men than women who bin men, postmen, etc.
"Just looking at politics alone, there is currently a lot in the media about how the next Prime Minister now has to be either Theresa May or Andrea Leadsom, therefore, it has to be (how shocking!) a woman. I know it’s only the second time in history so that’s a point of interest and it’s obviously great that there was no gender discrimination in this case that prevented us from getting another female Prime Minister but it still shouldn’t be portrayed by the media as such a novel and unusual idea." Of course, it's unusual, it wouldn't be if we had more women prime ministers.
"Even after the 2015 General Election, only 29% of MPs and a third of cabinet ministers are women. Women in politics seem to be judged by the media and society in general as much for how they look as for their policies and often face sexism from both the media and male colleagues." Do you have examples of sexism? Theresa May isn't exactly young and good-looking, but she's still prime-minster. Also, as I've said before, maybe there aren't that many women interested in politics. Also, people aren't voting women because of sexism, they tend to vote based on the party the candidate belongs to, not the gender.
"So, if we can’t get proper gender equality in politics which is both very public and obviously instrumental in trying to create equal rights then what hope is there for other professions." I don't think that companies should balance genders to match the demographics, it should be based on the quality of that candidate in choosing, and not trying to be diverse to pander off to feminists.
"It’s not just in the workplace that women aren’t treated equally either. Everyday sexism is present in schools, universities and in wider society." As someone who goes to school, there is more sexism against boys than girls, and I've been affected directly.
"Worryingly, there is evidence that our generation, if anything, is getting worse. The rise of “Lad Culture” and “Rape Culture” which are particularly prevalent at universities is becoming a serious problem. Women are routinely objectified. Some men (I am definitely not saying all men) and even some women make sexist jokes and comments on a regular basis including joking about rape." There also jokes about raping men. In fact at my school, you get boys humping other boys, I've also been humped several times (I've even taken it to the police for sexual harassment/assault and nothing was done), Linking with that, if a man is a victim of rape, he's seen as a joke (and no justice is done whatsoever). It's even worse if it's been committed by a woman because several countries have blocked the ability to prosecute female rapists.
"Sexist posts and memes (again including jokes about rape) are often shared on social media… Why is it still seen as acceptable to joke that women should “get back to the kitchen” or worse?" Have you got any examples? I've never come across this on YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram or Snapchat. Also, the point of a joke is humour and humour are dark. It's not always going to be rainbows and unicorns, otherwise, it wouldn't be funny, to be honest.
"As I said, I used to believe that men and women were now equal in the UK when I was still at school but scarily, knowing what I know now looking back on things that happened when I was at school, sexism was obvious there too. I had one male teacher in the sixth form who used to patronisingly call all the girls “young lady” but never the boys “young man”." I don't think that's sexism.
"I had a female teacher who said women who worked and had children were irresponsible because they couldn’t be fully committed to their careers." Of course, it is. This would be said about men too, but women get more child custody as opposed to men.
"Boys in my class joked that “all women should be prostitutes” but “*name of girl* wouldn’t get any customers”. In my year, boys and even occasionally girls made jokes that were either sexist or involved rape or both." Once again humour, you've never been raped (I assume), so you shouldn't be offended.
"Also, seeing some of the threads on TSR where (some) guys make sexist and misogynistic comments and then call girls “feminazis” if they dispute what’s been said makes me think that sexism certainly hasn’t gone, it hasn’t even decreased by all that much in some ways, it has just adapted into a modern version." Because feminists do believe in female superiority. Because of feminists, women can't be convicted of rape. Because of feminists, women have more custody of children. Because of feminists, men have portrayed as evil, patriarchal sexists. It's not misogyny just because men disagree with you. We're not calling you misandric for making sexist comments, portraying men as sexist.
I'm not saying that feminism hasn't done any good. That's pre-1980s btw. But since the 2000s you've taken advantage of that and trying to turn the tables.
"So, why is it that in 2016 women are still not treated as equal to men?" Because it's men that are having more issues than you.
"And why do people say that feminism is now irrelevant when there is still so much inequality?" Because feminism just makes it worse."In a country where women got the vote almost a century ago shouldn’t we have better equality in modern society than this?" We did but then yous took it to far.
"The “glass ceiling” is even now nowhere near broken. There are much more men than women in top level jobs in politics, law, science, technology, engineering, academia, business…" Have you ever thought women aren't interested in these jobs? You don't consider that there are more women than men in nursing, veterinary care, nor that there are more men than women who bin men, postmen, etc.
"Just looking at politics alone, there is currently a lot in the media about how the next Prime Minister now has to be either Theresa May or Andrea Leadsom, therefore, it has to be (how shocking!) a woman. I know it’s only the second time in history so that’s a point of interest and it’s obviously great that there was no gender discrimination in this case that prevented us from getting another female Prime Minister but it still shouldn’t be portrayed by the media as such a novel and unusual idea." Of course, it's unusual, it wouldn't be if we had more women prime ministers.
"Even after the 2015 General Election, only 29% of MPs and a third of cabinet ministers are women. Women in politics seem to be judged by the media and society in general as much for how they look as for their policies and often face sexism from both the media and male colleagues." Do you have examples of sexism? Theresa May isn't exactly young and good-looking, but she's still prime-minster. Also, as I've said before, maybe there aren't that many women interested in politics. Also, people aren't voting women because of sexism, they tend to vote based on the party the candidate belongs to, not the gender.
"So, if we can’t get proper gender equality in politics which is both very public and obviously instrumental in trying to create equal rights then what hope is there for other professions." I don't think that companies should balance genders to match the demographics, it should be based on the quality of that candidate in choosing, and not trying to be diverse to pander off to feminists.
"It’s not just in the workplace that women aren’t treated equally either. Everyday sexism is present in schools, universities and in wider society." As someone who goes to school, there is more sexism against boys than girls, and I've been affected directly.
"Worryingly, there is evidence that our generation, if anything, is getting worse. The rise of “Lad Culture” and “Rape Culture” which are particularly prevalent at universities is becoming a serious problem. Women are routinely objectified. Some men (I am definitely not saying all men) and even some women make sexist jokes and comments on a regular basis including joking about rape." There also jokes about raping men. In fact at my school, you get boys humping other boys, I've also been humped several times (I've even taken it to the police for sexual harassment/assault and nothing was done), Linking with that, if a man is a victim of rape, he's seen as a joke (and no justice is done whatsoever). It's even worse if it's been committed by a woman because several countries have blocked the ability to prosecute female rapists.
"Sexist posts and memes (again including jokes about rape) are often shared on social media… Why is it still seen as acceptable to joke that women should “get back to the kitchen” or worse?" Have you got any examples? I've never come across this on YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram or Snapchat. Also, the point of a joke is humour and humour are dark. It's not always going to be rainbows and unicorns, otherwise, it wouldn't be funny, to be honest.
"As I said, I used to believe that men and women were now equal in the UK when I was still at school but scarily, knowing what I know now looking back on things that happened when I was at school, sexism was obvious there too. I had one male teacher in the sixth form who used to patronisingly call all the girls “young lady” but never the boys “young man”." I don't think that's sexism.
"I had a female teacher who said women who worked and had children were irresponsible because they couldn’t be fully committed to their careers." Of course, it is. This would be said about men too, but women get more child custody as opposed to men.
"Boys in my class joked that “all women should be prostitutes” but “*name of girl* wouldn’t get any customers”. In my year, boys and even occasionally girls made jokes that were either sexist or involved rape or both." Once again humour, you've never been raped (I assume), so you shouldn't be offended.
"Also, seeing some of the threads on TSR where (some) guys make sexist and misogynistic comments and then call girls “feminazis” if they dispute what’s been said makes me think that sexism certainly hasn’t gone, it hasn’t even decreased by all that much in some ways, it has just adapted into a modern version." Because feminists do believe in female superiority. Because of feminists, women can't be convicted of rape. Because of feminists, women have more custody of children. Because of feminists, men have portrayed as evil, patriarchal sexists. It's not misogyny just because men disagree with you. We're not calling you misandric for making sexist comments, portraying men as sexist.
I'm not saying that feminism hasn't done any good. That's pre-1980s btw. But since the 2000s you've taken advantage of that and trying to turn the tables.
"So, why is it that in 2016 women are still not treated as equal to men?" Because it's men that are having more issues than you.
"And why do people say that feminism is now irrelevant when there is still so much inequality?" Because feminism just makes it worse."In a country where women got the vote almost a century ago shouldn’t we have better equality in modern society than this?" We did but then yous took it to far.
I was going to make a long post addressing all your points, but then I realised a popular tactic from feminists is to ignore all the valid points and just jump on and refute the one point that they can just about argue with.
Simple answer: Less gender studies, more STEM. Also gender conditioning is a lie I've not once witnessed a single teacher at my school push girls towards one area and men towards the other. And I was in school a while ago before the prevalence of SJW's
Simple answer: Less gender studies, more STEM. Also gender conditioning is a lie I've not once witnessed a single teacher at my school push girls towards one area and men towards the other. And I was in school a while ago before the prevalence of SJW's
(edited 7 years ago)
I think the whole 'gender equality/feminist debate' is a fashionable subject for 2016.
I'm a woman who works as a mechanical engineer. I did science subjects at college and did mechanical engineering at university. In my class there was about 4 women out of a class of 50 and i never really understood why. I think the whole 'women prefer humanities over STEM is nothing but rubbish. I attended a friends graduation recently for science, computing and engineering and i noticed something funny. 50%+ of mathematics grads getting on stage were women, 50% of physics grads were women, Web and software based degrees had approx a 40:60 split and many of the PhD's were completed by women.
If you sit back and read these articles which talk about how hard it is for women in the workplace then you'll start to believe it happens everywhere, as if women are abused in the workplace everyday. Believe me this is pure stupidity. I work for a company which has an initiative of women in technical engineering roles and their main issues are recruitment and retainment. Like i mentioned above, for some bizarre reason women made up less than 10% of my classes in university. I was never mocked for being a women in stem by students or lecturers, if anything it was a bit of an upper hand. Many big companies are also looking at flexi-time and longer maternity leave to keep women in certain subjects. Many places try and do a split recruitment policy of 50:50 which i'm not 100% in favour of. If you've got a man who's great for the job and has all the relevant experience there's no way he should lose out to a woman purely because of his gender! Which is why i don't agree with the whole MP scenario being 50:50 are we really going to sack male MP's and replace them with women when they've probably spent their entire working life in that field purely so we can look back and see the 50:50 split?
OP you've probably had different experiences to me which make you identify as a 'feminist' - all i can say is just keep doing stuff for you. There's no point cracking a glass ceiling if you never realised it was there in the first place.
I'm a woman who works as a mechanical engineer. I did science subjects at college and did mechanical engineering at university. In my class there was about 4 women out of a class of 50 and i never really understood why. I think the whole 'women prefer humanities over STEM is nothing but rubbish. I attended a friends graduation recently for science, computing and engineering and i noticed something funny. 50%+ of mathematics grads getting on stage were women, 50% of physics grads were women, Web and software based degrees had approx a 40:60 split and many of the PhD's were completed by women.
If you sit back and read these articles which talk about how hard it is for women in the workplace then you'll start to believe it happens everywhere, as if women are abused in the workplace everyday. Believe me this is pure stupidity. I work for a company which has an initiative of women in technical engineering roles and their main issues are recruitment and retainment. Like i mentioned above, for some bizarre reason women made up less than 10% of my classes in university. I was never mocked for being a women in stem by students or lecturers, if anything it was a bit of an upper hand. Many big companies are also looking at flexi-time and longer maternity leave to keep women in certain subjects. Many places try and do a split recruitment policy of 50:50 which i'm not 100% in favour of. If you've got a man who's great for the job and has all the relevant experience there's no way he should lose out to a woman purely because of his gender! Which is why i don't agree with the whole MP scenario being 50:50 are we really going to sack male MP's and replace them with women when they've probably spent their entire working life in that field purely so we can look back and see the 50:50 split?
OP you've probably had different experiences to me which make you identify as a 'feminist' - all i can say is just keep doing stuff for you. There's no point cracking a glass ceiling if you never realised it was there in the first place.
Original post by Robby2312
Maybe so but that does not prove systematic sexism against girls.If girls are expected to pursue more feminine subjects then boys are expected not to cry or show weakness.Modern western women are probably the most priveliged women to ever live and all they do is complain of sexism.Suicide is the most common cause of death for men under a certain age and higher for gay people but you never seem to hear anything about that.
Any sensible person would agree that social pressures regarding gender are unnecessarily harmful to both men and women.
Original post by RobML
Any sensible person would agree that social pressures regarding gender are unnecessarily harmful to both men and women.
Most sensible people would also agree that there are inherent differences between men and women which could cause them to choose different things.
Original post by Robby2312
Most sensible people would also agree that there are inherent differences between men and women which could cause them to choose different things.
Yes, and?
The concept of what is "gender equality" is newer concept that has been changing. New aspects about it have been added to older descriptions about it, and older aspects have been taken away.
How can equality exist if the thing that we view as or could agree on to being "equal" changes. Shoot, even what gender is has changed in some way by some opinions.
How can equality exist if the thing that we view as or could agree on to being "equal" changes. Shoot, even what gender is has changed in some way by some opinions.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36935362
Typical..... boss makes a statement based on current sociological theory backed which is backed up by data. Fired by the feminist lynch mob as per usual.
Women under 30 usually have better employment prospects and higher wages than men if they choose the same fields that men usually choose. Women over 40 don't, however they still state a much higher happiness level than men. Generally it's suggested women sacrifice earning potential for a more health social lifestyle. Men who have similar lifestyles generally also report higher happiness levels.
By comparison if you take both men and women in identical life circumstances under the age of 30, # of kids, job, time off work, experience, age etc. Women usually come of slightly better earning wise, but in higher positions have a drop in happiness (men do as well).
In equal societies everyone should have the same chances, choices and opportunities. This does not mean creating opportunities for those who didn't try hard enough or choose the right career ladder. Basically if a woman wants to work hard and get a promotion let her, if a guy wants to spend more time with family, don't belittle him. In reality we don't need more women in higher positions, we actually need to let guys know that 'if' they want to spend more time with family (which is more healthy), it doesn't demasculinise them.
But no, according to feminism we're dangerous monsters who need to kept under control, who're made to feel guilty if we work hard and become successful and won't let any women into our club. At the moment feminism seems like a fascist ideology of the 1930's.... "oh you can do what you want, but you don't want to disagree with us". Like any sociological ideology feminism can and does have some very real flaws in it's world view, just like Marxism, Functionalism etc etc.
Typical..... boss makes a statement based on current sociological theory backed which is backed up by data. Fired by the feminist lynch mob as per usual.
Women under 30 usually have better employment prospects and higher wages than men if they choose the same fields that men usually choose. Women over 40 don't, however they still state a much higher happiness level than men. Generally it's suggested women sacrifice earning potential for a more health social lifestyle. Men who have similar lifestyles generally also report higher happiness levels.
By comparison if you take both men and women in identical life circumstances under the age of 30, # of kids, job, time off work, experience, age etc. Women usually come of slightly better earning wise, but in higher positions have a drop in happiness (men do as well).
In equal societies everyone should have the same chances, choices and opportunities. This does not mean creating opportunities for those who didn't try hard enough or choose the right career ladder. Basically if a woman wants to work hard and get a promotion let her, if a guy wants to spend more time with family, don't belittle him. In reality we don't need more women in higher positions, we actually need to let guys know that 'if' they want to spend more time with family (which is more healthy), it doesn't demasculinise them.
But no, according to feminism we're dangerous monsters who need to kept under control, who're made to feel guilty if we work hard and become successful and won't let any women into our club. At the moment feminism seems like a fascist ideology of the 1930's.... "oh you can do what you want, but you don't want to disagree with us". Like any sociological ideology feminism can and does have some very real flaws in it's world view, just like Marxism, Functionalism etc etc.
Original post by Sapphire321
What a brilliant and clever insight into the discussion... Also, given the definition of that as "a demasculated Millennial liberal male who often speaks of white privilege and modern feminism" then I would have to say since both myself and everyone else who supports women's rights on this thread are all female that is pretty inaccurate. If you look through the thread you will find most of the men here are very against women's rights.
Against women's rights? We're trying to bring back sense into you. You've been brainwashed into thinking that your the victim.
Original post by Freddie010
I was going to make a long post addressing all your points, but then I realised a popular tactic from feminists is to ignore all the valid points and just jump on and refute the one point that they can just about argue with.
Simple answer: Less gender studies, more STEM. Also gender conditioning is a lie I've not once witnessed a single teacher at my school push girls towards one area and men towards the other. And I was in school a while ago before the prevalence of SJW's
Simple answer: Less gender studies, more STEM. Also gender conditioning is a lie I've not once witnessed a single teacher at my school push girls towards one area and men towards the other. And I was in school a while ago before the prevalence of SJW's
Do if you want to. I will try and answer them the best I can. If you look back through the thread you can see that I've tried to answer everything in all the previous posts I've replied to; it's been the people on here who are arguing against me that have done exactly what you have just accused feminists of doing.
I have never even considered doing gender studies. I am a future STEM student. I didn't say that teachers did that. I just don't get this! So many people on here, including you, are acting like social justice is a negative thing! All the main British political parties support social justice including the Conservative Party. Are you all members of Britain First or something?
Original post by The person
Against women's rights? We're trying to bring back sense into you. You've been brainwashed into thinking that your the victim.
If you seriously can't see that some (I'm not saying all) of the people on here are against women's rights then you are delusional. Sense? Really? By saying that feminists are terrorists and coming up with ludicrous conspiracy theories about how Jewish people came up with feminism to cause the breakdown of Western society? I haven't been brainwashed at all! You're completely wrong if you think that I'm some sort of radical feminist who reads extreme feminist literature and goes to loads of violent protests or something.
Original post by upperechelon
oh no have I triggered you
Actually, I'm perfectly fine thank you. I would like it better if you stopped being so arrogant and immature but then that's just me...
Original post by Sapphire321
If you seriously can't see that some (I'm not saying all) of the people on here are against women's rights then you are delusional. Sense? Really? By saying that feminists are terrorists and coming up with ludicrous conspiracy theories about how Jewish people came up with feminism to cause the breakdown of Western society? I haven't been brainwashed at all! You're completely wrong if you think that I'm some sort of radical feminist who reads extreme feminist literature and goes to loads of violent protests or something.
Huh? what? where did this come from? When did I say feminists are terrorists and when did I say Jewish people came up with this to breakdown western society? You have been saying that people on this thread are against women's rights, when they haven't said anything sexist whatsoever. If you actually read their comments without interpreting it using your biased, man hating attitude, then you will understand that they(just like me) are utterly bemused by how young women nowadays are irrationally calling anything, and anyone, sexist. What is your goal here and what is your motive. On the whole, there is nothing significantly discriminatory in western society towards men and women, to regard the western society as unequal in terms of sex. Your comments have no direction and I don't think you even know why your arguing about society. If you really want to help women and women's rights, go to the middle east where some women get killed for showing their feet. THAT IS INEQUALITY. Before you call me sexist and against women's rights, I'm an EGALITARIAN(as everyone should be) as I believe everything and everyone is equal. Feminism doesn't want equal rights, they want special rights for women. Hence, FEMinism.
Original post by The person
Huh? what? where did this come from? When did I say feminists are terrorists and when did I say Jewish people came up with this to breakdown western society? You have been saying that people on this thread are against women's rights, when they haven't said anything sexist whatsoever. If you actually read their comments without interpreting it using your biased, man hating attitude, then you will understand that they(just like me) are utterly bemused by how young women nowadays are irrationally calling anything, and anyone, sexist. What is your goal here and what is your motive. On the whole, there is nothing significantly discriminatory in western society towards men and women, to regard the western society as unequal in terms of sex. Your comments have no direction and I don't think you even know why your arguing about society. If you really want to help women and women's rights, go to the middle east where some women get killed for showing their feet. THAT IS INEQUALITY. Before you call me sexist and against women's rights, I'm an EGALITARIAN(as everyone should be) as I believe everything and everyone is equal. Feminism doesn't want equal rights, they want special rights for women. Hence, FEMinism.
You said "we" as in the people on this thread who are arguing against me. Those are some of the most stupid comments I've had on this thread and hopefully you agree that they are far from sensible. Some of them clearly are against women's rights; anyone can see that. I don't have a biased man hating attitude! Where have I said anything that suggests I hate men? I don't go around calling people sexist either. My entire point is that there is still discrimination and inequality in Western countries. Can you please read all of my posts on this thread before commenting because I'm bored with having to repeat myself many times because so many people don't read the rest of the thread. My comments have a clear direction which should be obvious to anyone. If anyone doesn't know what they are talking about on this thread it's not me. I am not saying that inequality in Eastern countries isn't much worse that in Western counties. It obviously is and I care about that very much but caring about inequality in the West doesn't mean you don't care about inequality in the East. Just because the problems in the East are worse doesn't mean that there aren't problems here. It also doesn't mean that we should ignore the problems here. We should keep trying to prevent both. So am I! I am also an egalitarian so we should agree on this. Feminism does want equal rights or it certainly should and that is definitely what I want. The point isn't to get special rights for women; the point is to get women the same rights and opportunities as men.
Original post by Sapphire321
Feminism does want equal rights or it certainly should and that is definitely what I want. The point isn't to get special rights for women; the point is to get women the same rights and opportunities as men.
This simple fact is feminism isn't interested in equal rights, it's a movement for women's rights hence why it's biggest campaigns are centred around things that don't involve sexism but disproportionately effect women such as rape and DV
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by sleepysnooze
right...
so women get called "dear", "love", etc
boys/men are subjected to common claims of paedophilia if they're anywhere around children (hence the recent andrea leadsom comments), criminality/aggression (and hence a much higher likelihood of a prison sentence for a crime), they are expected to do dangerous jobs, they're made to conform to strict body images by the media (encouraged by women) i.e. muscles, height, etc or income, they're expected to physically fight for their female partners, they're expected to pay for their female partners, they're expected to be the bread winners, *by women*, yet when they actually ****ing fulfill this role, women complain about them...I mean, do you really think there's as much pressure upon women to earn maximal amounts like there is upon men with romantic/sexual relationships in mind? women care a lot if a man is poor, or "poor" in the woman's eyes, but men never care - there are studies that confirm this.
the hypocrisy is endless
also, the wage gap: if it's discrimination against women that women don't typically "earn" as much as men, then it's surely discrimination that 95% of the prison population is male? what's the difference? you discount personal life choices in the former, so why not the latter? I mean, do you understand how ridiculous feminism is today given these facts? "feminism" might be one thing in the dictionary, but in practice, it's merely women slamming men for basically nothing, or blaming men for their own personal issues. "page 3"? what about ****ing male infant non-medical circumcision practised in your own country!
PS: I get called "dear" and "love" and I'm a 22 year old man, with a beard. is it sexist? or is it an insult?
so women get called "dear", "love", etc
boys/men are subjected to common claims of paedophilia if they're anywhere around children (hence the recent andrea leadsom comments), criminality/aggression (and hence a much higher likelihood of a prison sentence for a crime), they are expected to do dangerous jobs, they're made to conform to strict body images by the media (encouraged by women) i.e. muscles, height, etc or income, they're expected to physically fight for their female partners, they're expected to pay for their female partners, they're expected to be the bread winners, *by women*, yet when they actually ****ing fulfill this role, women complain about them...I mean, do you really think there's as much pressure upon women to earn maximal amounts like there is upon men with romantic/sexual relationships in mind? women care a lot if a man is poor, or "poor" in the woman's eyes, but men never care - there are studies that confirm this.
the hypocrisy is endless
also, the wage gap: if it's discrimination against women that women don't typically "earn" as much as men, then it's surely discrimination that 95% of the prison population is male? what's the difference? you discount personal life choices in the former, so why not the latter? I mean, do you understand how ridiculous feminism is today given these facts? "feminism" might be one thing in the dictionary, but in practice, it's merely women slamming men for basically nothing, or blaming men for their own personal issues. "page 3"? what about ****ing male infant non-medical circumcision practised in your own country!
PS: I get called "dear" and "love" and I'm a 22 year old man, with a beard. is it sexist? or is it an insult?
Getting called "dear" or "love" obviously doesn't have to be sexist but it can be meant in a sexist way depending on the person's intentions and the situation. I don't think that all men are accused of peadophilia if they go anywhere near children but I get your point and I didn't agree with Andrea Leadsom's comments on that. Personally, I definitely think that the sentence should depend on the crime and not the person's gender so I don't agree with women getting lighter prison sentences just because they're female. I don't think men should be expected to do more dangerous jobs either. Women are made to conform to strict body images by the media at least as much as men are if not more so and I don't think that men should be under more pressure than women to have a high income. That's part of my point. When are men supposed to physically fight for their female partners? I personally wouldn't want or expect my partner to either pay for me or be the breadwinner/main earner. I would pay for my own stuff and would prefer to earn a similar amount to my partner. No, you're right, there isn't and I don't agree with that! I don't think men should be pressured into earning really high salaries. I wouldn't care if a man was poor or earned less than me so I'm not being hypocritical.
One has absolutely nothing to do with the other. It's discrimination that more men are in prison when it's affected by women getting lighter sentences just because of their gender etc. It's not discrimination when it's affected by men just committing more crimes. The earnings gap isn't only due to personal life choices. It's not about blaming men for nothing or about blaming men for women's own personal issues. Yes, there are some radical feminists but you can't blame all women who want gender equality for them. We shouldn't have either of those.
I think that people focus too narrowly on individual disadvantages in particular areas experienced by either men or women, rather than looking at them as connected problems and trying to tackle the root issues which affect both men and women negatively. I think that this fragmented approach is hampering the effectiveness of efforts to tackle gender equality.
Another thing I would say (in response to some of the frothier-mouthed people getting defensive on here and elsewhere) is that the existence of gender inequality doesn't necessarily imply that every gender issue is being perpetuated by individual people being sexist. It could mean that the way things are done in society impact men and women in different ways, producing differential effects from equal treatment. Therefore it isn't necessarily enough to treat men and women in the same way and declare it to be people's own fault when a disparity arises along gendered lines.
Another thing I would say (in response to some of the frothier-mouthed people getting defensive on here and elsewhere) is that the existence of gender inequality doesn't necessarily imply that every gender issue is being perpetuated by individual people being sexist. It could mean that the way things are done in society impact men and women in different ways, producing differential effects from equal treatment. Therefore it isn't necessarily enough to treat men and women in the same way and declare it to be people's own fault when a disparity arises along gendered lines.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by TurboCretin
I think that people focus too narrowly on individual disadvantages in particular areas experienced by either men or women, rather than looking at them as connected problems and trying to tackle the root issues which affect both men and women negatively. I think that this fragmented approach is hampering the effectiveness of efforts to tackle gender equality.
Another thing I would say (in response to some of the frothier-mouthed people getting defensive on here and elsewhere) is that the existence of gender inequality doesn't necessarily imply that every gender issue is being perpetuated by individual people being sexist. It could mean that the way things are done in society impact men and women in different ways, producing differential effects from equal treatment. Therefore it isn't necessarily enough to treat men and women in the same way and declare it to be people's own fault when a disparity arises along gendered lines.
Another thing I would say (in response to some of the frothier-mouthed people getting defensive on here and elsewhere) is that the existence of gender inequality doesn't necessarily imply that every gender issue is being perpetuated by individual people being sexist. It could mean that the way things are done in society impact men and women in different ways, producing differential effects from equal treatment. Therefore it isn't necessarily enough to treat men and women in the same way and declare it to be people's own fault when a disparity arises along gendered lines.
so you are an intersectional feminist arguing that "postive" discrimination is good and is not just regular old discrimination?
Original post by TurboCretin
I think that people focus too narrowly on individual disadvantages in particular areas experienced by either men or women, rather than looking at them as connected problems and trying to tackle the root issues which affect both men and women negatively. I think that this fragmented approach is hampering the effectiveness of efforts to tackle gender equality.
Another thing I would say (in response to some of the frothier-mouthed people getting defensive on here and elsewhere) is that the existence of gender inequality doesn't necessarily imply that every gender issue is being perpetuated by individual people being sexist. It could mean that the way things are done in society impact men and women in different ways, producing differential effects from equal treatment. Therefore it isn't necessarily enough to treat men and women in the same way and declare it to be people's own fault when a disparity arises along gendered lines.
Another thing I would say (in response to some of the frothier-mouthed people getting defensive on here and elsewhere) is that the existence of gender inequality doesn't necessarily imply that every gender issue is being perpetuated by individual people being sexist. It could mean that the way things are done in society impact men and women in different ways, producing differential effects from equal treatment. Therefore it isn't necessarily enough to treat men and women in the same way and declare it to be people's own fault when a disparity arises along gendered lines.
I think that feminist are eager to find links and connections, as ockham's razor shows us that when we remove any ideological goggles allot of what feminist claim is discrimination can be explain by allot more reasonably as something else.
In response to the second argument which seems to be arguing patriarchy theory(interwoven system of oppression, is how I understand it), you must again prove that the most reasonable answer is some sort of oppressive system.
In addition say a group is disadvantaged in one category and advantaged in another(as you seem to be saying), they are not oppressed(by the correct definition of the word).
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