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The NBA 2019-20 Thread - Free agency is mad - Westbrook to Houston, CP3 to OKC!?

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Original post by eden3
Why did I put Shaq above Kobe? Or why did I put them in those respective places?


Respective places/so high up. More so for Shaq, haven't heard him at 3 as much as some others so I'd be interested in the reasoning :smile:
Original post by MrDystopia
Many people probably averaged more, playing a short career can easily skew that. PPG for Magic would've had to have gone on for another decade to see if he had sustained dominance such as Kareem at 38 years old.

I think it's more a case of you ONLY look at post season and place FAR too much importance on rings and FMVPs. Your other image of Hakeem too focused on playoffs, a lot like this one for Magic. I think you fail to see that careers are just that, careers. Not simply post season performances. I also find your analysis quite negative. WHY did Kareem only achieve FMVP twice in comparison to Magic's three? What went wrong? Was he carried? etc etc.

And therein lies the irony of it all. You admit you've never looked into it, yet are happy to throw around phrases such as 'why he was mediocre when it came to winning'. It's VERY common knowledge his Bucks side were definitely not on his level, hence KAJ winning just once with them but 5 with the Lakers. A good analogy? Think early Lebron with the Cavs before his Miami Heat move. I mean, Lebron only won when he had Wade, or Kyrie later on right? Same thought process you've applied there?

For example, let us take 1980. FMVP was Magic. Thus by your logic, Kareem was mediocre when it came to winning right? Carried by Magic? Nope, he averaged 11.9 more points than Magic, 2.4 more rebounds, and 4.3 more blocks. Magic on the other hand averaged 5.5 more assists and 2.1 more steals. Kareem's number that series were INSANE. Why did he not win the FMVP? Simply cause he was injured for Game 6. His absence meant Magic had to do everything (Which he did) and thus he was given the FMVP. Had Kareem not been injured, Magic wouldn't have had to shoulder it all. It's common consensus that KAJ would've won the FMVP over him for his incredible series. If you tell me this was mediocre as he didn't win FMVP: http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1980-nba-finals-76ers-vs-lakers.html then I don't really know how to explain that there is more to it than FMVPs and rings.

You can analyse the others, and no doubt there will be ones where he wasn't the star, yet Magic was. But to assume that because 3 > 2 KAJ was awful in the others is lazy.

And yup, it goes back to the same thing again. KAJ needed star support despite dominating. Lebron needed star support despite dominating. Jordan needed star support. It is, after all, a team game.


Well minus 1 season which you can't count 11 seasons is a pretty large sample size. More than half of his actual playing career had he not retired no doubt.

You can't say the Bucks weren't on his level when he had the greatest PG of that era in Oscar Robertson! Now I don't know about the rest of his team but that's a hell of a player if you ask me. And they won one so they were good enough to get it done. The main reason I've never looked at it is simply because there isn't enough of the details to properly form a game through numbers online. And I can't be bothered watching the tape just to see where they failed.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1973-nba-western-conference-semifinals-warriors-vs-bucks.html

From this I can only imagine Thurmond who was supposedly an amazing defender shut down Kareem, Oscar had a 34 point game but they fell in 6.

LeBron literally had nobody in '07 so no you can't compare we've been over this. Oscar was no scrub. With Wade he went 2/4 and with Kyrie 1/2 so far. All whilst being the main man.

I'll concede the point about the 1980 finals, although I was already aware he'd done exceptionally well in that run and it certainly wasn't the tail end of their chip collection (which i was referring to) which was 5 years on.

I don't know what else to say, we'll just have to agree to disagree because it's getting tiring! :p:

As for my top 10, tough one

MJ
Magic
LeBron
Hakeem
Timmy
Kareem
Russell
Bird
Shaq
Wilt

Why do people rate Kareem so highly but not Wilt anyway? Seems a little unfair if you're going to rate players based off of their regular season. Just because half the awards didn't exist whilst he was around?

The 70's is considered the weakest era only after the 60's so I don't get it.

Original post by eden3
1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Shaq
4. LeBron
5. Kobe
6. Magic
7. Duncan
8. Bird
9. Hakeem
10. Bill Russell


Kareem at #2 but no Wilt? Also get Kobe out of that top 5 son

[video="youtube;LoJtwYSLeMw"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoJtwYSLeMw[/video]
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Aristotle's' Disciple
The 70's is considered the weakest era only after the 60's so I don't get it.
I wouldn't say weak, I think it's more 70's had parity. The last true parity anyway. There was no 'star teams'. 8 different champs in 10 seasons, no back to back winners. The 60's on the other hand had well..the Celtics. Lack of a salary cap meant they could stack players as they did (They once played a starting line up with 4 future HOFers), and there was only 9 teams in the league anyway.

Wilt played through that era, and aside from that, didn't actually have much of an amazing career accolade wise. He was, after all, only a champ twice and a FMVP once. Sure he was league MVP 4 times, but that's only due to him being somewhat of an athletic freak. CLEARLY the tallest player, in a watered down league comprising 8/9 teams on which he could easily just lay up or dunk. It's why he often falls low behind centres such as KAJ, as KAJ supplemented his incredible scoring in a tougher league with multiple championships and FMVPs, as well as defensive prowess.
I have 3 dunks that I always remember and love. 4 but one of them has already been mentioned in that was the one with Wade and James alley oop.

*First one was just the definition of putting the guy on a poster. Surprised VC wasn't arrested for murdering that bloke.

[video="youtube;XMrPjl-927Q"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMrPjl-927Q&feature=youtu.be[/video] *
This one because of how brutal it was and the post dunk taunting. That would get you fined and suspended in this day :rofl: [video="youtube;l2GaAWdHwsw"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2GaAWdHwsw[/video]

*
And this one Wade made Varejao his little *****. Man didn't even have time to flop, he just took and accepted his "beta cuck status"

[video="youtube;5uRN7iJ5CqQ"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uRN7iJ5CqQ&feature=youtu.be[/video]* *

*Also there was one Josh Smith did for the Hawks way back where it sounded like a bomb went off, but I can't recall who it was against if anyone can? The sound it made when he dunked it though was just :zomg:*
Apologies for the three posts but TSR only lets me post 1 vid at a time and the asterisks, got no clue why they keep appearing.
Reply 807
Avatar for eden3
eden3
19
Original post by MrDystopia
Respective places/so high up. More so for Shaq, haven't heard him at 3 as much as some others so I'd be interested in the reasoning :smile:


Shaq was arguably the most unstoppable, most dominant player ever... when he was in his prime. The only knock on him was his horrific free throw shooting. Obviously his numbers speak for themselves but to be that big yet that athletic, that agile, that skilled. It just wasn't fair man. 4 rings as well as 3 FMVPs - yes I hate to admit it - he fully deserved those FMVPs when he was with Kobe I'm not that delusional lol. So I have to pay him respek in that regard. Right now I only have him above LeBron because he has one more ring that LeBron.. yeah I know, pretty simple reason but hey. Only won one MVP (should've won 2 but that's another argument :tongue:) but this guy was a pure beast on both ends of the floor.

Not to disregard the sheer greatness of Duncan, Magic, etc in my upper top 10 but they consistently had a great team around them.

As for Kobe... I'll be the first to admit my opinion's biased as an LA fan and because he's my 2nd fav all-time player (first is Steph :wink: ). But, I take a number of things into consideration for Kobe. Outside of his accomplishments, I look at his intangibles, his longevity, his loyalty to his franchise... etc. This guy stuck with LA through the thick and thin although I know he considered Chicago in '07. His insane work ethic, his clutch gene, his ability to get through to teammates.

Let's take a look at his basketball accolades. Scoring machine (2x Scoring Champion). All-time Lakers' leading scorer. 3rd all-time in points.

5/7 in the Finals, 2 FMVPs, although only 1 MVP. I know a lot of people say Shaq 'carried' the Lakers for his first 3 rings but Kobe was instrumental in all 5 of the championships he won. He was also an elite defender - 9x NBA All-Defensive 1st team. For these reasons, I give him the nod over Duncan, Magic, etc.
Reply 808
Avatar for eden3
eden3
19
Original post by Aristotle's' Disciple


As for my top 10, tough one

MJ
Magic
LeBron
Hakeem
Timmy
Kareem
Russell
Bird
Shaq
Wilt


Kareem at #2 but no Wilt? Also get Kobe out of that top 5 son
Yooooo I think you made a mistake in your list. I don't see Kobe in there :wink: [video="youtube;0mAKAkl6l0Y"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mAKAkl6l0Y[/video]
Original post by eden3
Yooooo I think you made a mistake in your list. I don't see Kobe in there :wink: [video="youtube;0mAKAkl6l0Y"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mAKAkl6l0Y[/video]


when Skip said Scottie isn't top 50 all time :rofl: I love how you can have a full conversation with SAS meme vids :biggrin:
Reply 810
Avatar for eden3
eden3
19
Original post by Aristotle's' Disciple
when Skip said Scottie isn't top 50 all time :rofl: I love how you can have a full conversation with SAS meme vids :biggrin:


LMAO sometimes I think Skip was honestly just a troll :rofl:
Original post by Malevolent
And this one Wade made Varejao his little *****. Man didn't even have time to flop, he just took and accepted his "beta cuck status"

[video="youtube;5uRN7iJ5CqQ"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uRN7iJ5CqQ&feature=youtu.be[/video]* *

*Also there was one Josh Smith did for the Hawks way back where it sounded like a bomb went off, but I can't recall who it was against if anyone can? The sound it made when he dunked it though was just :zomg:*

Damn the amount of times I've re watched this video ...Have to replay it at least 10 times each time I go on the video
Reply 812
Avatar for eden3
eden3
19
Original post by Malevolent
And this one Wade made Varejao his little *****. Man didn't even have time to flop, he just took and accepted his "beta cuck status"

*Also there was one Josh Smith did for the Hawks way back where it sounded like a bomb went off, but I can't recall who it was against if anyone can? The sound it made when he dunked it though was just :zomg:*

The first time I saw that D. Wade dunk I rewatched it countless times. Just disgusting. Varejao forever taking L's :rofl:


also, is this the dunk you were referring to?
[video="youtube;eTNjY1nI_H4"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTNjY1nI_H4[/video]
So this is the notorious thread I've heard of...
Glad to have found it, thanks to @eden3 and @Aristotle's' Disciple
Original post by Kendrik Lamar
So this is the notorious thread I've heard of...
Glad to have found it, thanks to @eden3 and @Aristotle's' Disciple


Welcome, welcome :biggrin: Glad to have another member! Current topic of the off season is, top 10, who ya got?
Original post by Aristotle's' Disciple
top 10, who ya got?

1.

LeBron (much as I hate to admit. If it weren't for that notorious Game 7, I would have hesitated, but just a little)

2.

Steph

3.

KD

4.

Westbrook

5.

Irving

6.

Wade

7.

CP3

8.

Harden

9.

Kawhi, and

10.

Blake Griffin

But that's off of the top of my head
Original post by Kendrik Lamar

1.

LeBron (much as I hate to admit. If it weren't for that notorious Game 7, I would have hesitated, but just a little)

2.

Steph

3.

KD

4.

Westbrook

5.

Irving

6.

Wade

7.

CP3

8.

Harden

9.

Kawhi, and

10.

Blake Griffin

But that's off of the top of my head


It's actually top 10 all time atm! Current top 10 is one to add to the list though @MrDystopia
Original post by TajwarC
Damn the amount of times I've re watched this video ...Have to replay it at least 10 times each time I go on the video


Its my favourite dunk of all time as Heat fan. Just flat out nasty.

Original post by eden3
The first time I saw that D. Wade dunk I rewatched it countless times. Just disgusting. Varejao forever taking L's :rofl: also, is this the dunk you were referring to?



*[video="youtube;DvmLkCT2V0k"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvmLkCT2V0k[/video]

The sound the rim makes... :eek:
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Aristotle's' Disciple
It's actually top 10 all time

WHOA... that's a completely different list altogether. Here goes:

1.

Jordan

2.

Magic

3.

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

4.

LeBron

5.

Wilt Chamberlain

6.

Bill Russell

7.

Kobe Bryant

8.

Shaquille O'Neal

9.

Scottie Pippen

10.

Larry Bird

Crap. This list is very depressing to compile.
A Top 10 will always raise debates
Reply 819
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eden3
19
Original post by Malevolent


The sound the rim makes... :eek:

LMAO I thought I was playing CoD for a second

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