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Survey: Only 18% of Germans would fight for their country

Edit: Sorry, wrong thread
(edited 6 years ago)

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RIP Germany
Reply 2
Was the question just would you fight for your country?
If it is my answer would be maybe, if there was more information about why I would be fighting that would make a difference.

And I would assume that is why the numbers are so low.
Only 18% of Germans are German.
Totally irrelevant.

Anybody can claim "I am a proud patriot and I would fight and die for my country", it means jack **** unless you're willing to join up, do the training and serve.
I think if we look upon the Germans with disdain, then we should look upon ourselves with disdain as well. Going by that infograph 27% of Brits would fight. But reality doesn't match up with that.
The Army is is decreasing from it standing strength of 101,000 men to about 82.000 men by the year 2020. And even with the reduction in numbers the Army is still struggling to recruit.
Most of those 27% were talking s**t. Like MagicNMedicine said, if they're willing to fight, prove it.
Anyway, the Germans have conscription whereby they can join the forces or join a public service organisation.
Original post by !!mentor!!
Going by that infograph 27% of Brits would fight. But reality doesn't match up with that.
The Army is is decreasing from it standing strength of 101,000 men to about 82.000 men by the year 2020. And even with the reduction in numbers the Army is still struggling to recruit.
Most of those 27% were talking s**t. Like MagicNMedicine said, if they're willing to fight, prove it.


Think it depends on what's being asked tbh. We get many articles about our army apparently being poorly funded (not sure how true that really is) and of course some engagements have been questionable in their achievements, thus that may be why some do not feel that they want to join the army.

Also having a career as a soldier and saying you'd fight for your country are two different things. I am not a soldier and have no interest in joining the army, however if you'd ask me "would you fight for your country?" and we're imagining a scenario of all-out war where conscription would be considered, I'd say yes, I wouldn't be a conscious objector for the most part. But again it does depend on the scenario, if Britain decided to invade X African nation for a highly questionable reason, I may not want to put my name to that invasion. But if we were being attacked by another nation (Russia started to steamroll through Europe) and were being called up to respond..that's a different situation, and I'd hope the vast majority would pick up arms and fight in the streets if it got to that point.
Original post by joey11223
Think it depends on what's being asked tbh. We get many articles about our army apparently being poorly funded (not sure how true that really is) and of course some engagements have been questionable in their achievements, thus that may be why some do not feel that they want to join the army.

Also having a career as a soldier and saying you'd fight for your country are two different things. I am not a soldier and have no interest in joining the army, however if you'd ask me "would you fight for your country?" and we're imagining a scenario of all-out war where conscription would be considered, I'd say yes, I wouldn't be a conscious objector for the most part. But again it does depend on the scenario, if Britain decided to invade X African nation for a highly questionable reason, I may not want to put my name to that invasion. But if we were being attacked by another nation (Russia started to steamroll through Europe) and were being called up to respond..that's a different situation, and I'd hope the vast majority would pick up arms and fight in the streets if it got to that point.


I agree but there's also a flipside. In the interests of my own sense of self-preservation, I would much rather be in an army that fights against X African nation as opposed to a highly-militarised Russia.
Germany - hardly surprising considering the relatively recent negative experience(s) of doing so.

There does seem to be a direct correlation tho, between how willing respondents are to say "yes" and how generally crap the country is. The nations with massive chips on their shoulders seem to have the highest percentages.

The Russians - who didn't like Communism, but can't get over not being an international big boy.
Turkey - international sad case, head in the sand deniers of everything, had a genocidal empire but haven't got any guilt over it.
Greece - watched far too much 300. Completely incapable of doing anything, yet love to big themselves up.
Ukraine - well, they're actually half in a war, so it's hardly surprising.

It's also telling that the countries with the armies that could actually go to war and do something are the ones with the low percentages. They've got professional armies, so why does Joe Public need to worry?
Progress.

Of all the things to fight for "your country" is one of the stupidest.
Reply 10
This can be explained on two way.

Firstly, the left-wing Germans given its history think "yes, our grandfather fought for their country in 1943 and they were the evil guys". It has to do with German guilt complex. The patriotic Germans have also no reason to fight for Germany because they see the Federal Republic of Germany and its political establishment as anti-Germans who care more about refugees than for its own people. The Cologne case gives this though very good reasons.

I also doubt the survey for other country. I doubt that less than half Poles and Serbs would fought for their country.
Original post by MagicNMedicine
Totally irrelevant.

Anybody can claim "I am a proud patriot and I would fight and die for my country", it means jack **** unless you're willing to join up, do the training and serve.


Much like Cameron and his 'swivle eyed loon' comment, what's important here is not whether the statistic is actually true but rather whether it is believable and given that the German people seem complicit in allowing a million third worlders into their country each year (Merkel's party is still well ahead in polling) i'd say that a lot of Germans either have to be naive beyond belief (that inviting a million mainly Muslim people won't destroy their own culture) or take the view that there's nothing worth saving.

I love Germany as a country but if Russia ever went into eastern Europe or ISIS ever formed a functional state, i strongly suspect that Germany would do nothing of substance.

Original post by !!mentor!!
I think if we look upon the Germans with disdain, then we should look upon ourselves with disdain as well. Going by that infograph 27% of Brits would fight. But reality doesn't match up with that.
The Army is is decreasing from it standing strength of 101,000 men to about 82.000 men by the year 2020. And even with the reduction in numbers the Army is still struggling to recruit.
Most of those 27% were talking s**t. Like MagicNMedicine said, if they're willing to fight, prove it.
Anyway, the Germans have conscription whereby they can join the forces or join a public service organisation.


I do think that the question is a bad one because there's little context however i think that if we had a proper war with Russia for example then millions of men would join willingly. People may consider Britain to be a tad racist or xenophobic at times but i get the impression that people think there's a country worth defending/

Original post by Trinculo
Germany - hardly surprising considering the relatively recent negative experience(s) of doing so.

There does seem to be a direct correlation tho, between how willing respondents are to say "yes" and how generally crap the country is. The nations with massive chips on their shoulders seem to have the highest percentages.

The Russians - who didn't like Communism, but can't get over not being an international big boy.
Turkey - international sad case, head in the sand deniers of everything, had a genocidal empire but haven't got any guilt over it.
Greece - watched far too much 300. Completely incapable of doing anything, yet love to big themselves up.
Ukraine - well, they're actually half in a war, so it's hardly surprising.

It's also telling that the countries with the armies that could actually go to war and do something are the ones with the low percentages. They've got professional armies, so why does Joe Public need to worry?


Not sure Turkey should feel guilty. I feel nothing but pride about our own empire and a bit of sadness that it was never made to evolve.

Generally speaking i don't think it's about whether nations have a professional army or not but rather that the countries who would fight are those who actually see themselves as threatened.
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
Progress.

Of all the things to fight for "your country" is one of the stupidest.


Amazingly i used to agree however as time has moved on i've come to believe that for all it's faults we have a nation worth defending from those who wish to destroy it, be that ethnically, culturally or through military means.

Countries are simply extensions of communities. While i can imagine that an anarchist would not support the existence of the country anyway, i'd imagine that if you were happy in a small village, you'd protect it from what you regarded as a threat.
Reply 13
I didn't expect Finland to be so high.
They need to fight for their country, againsr the enemy within.
Im a German and I would probably not fight for the current Germany. Why?
Because the current German population looks upon soldiers with indifference at best. I will not fight for a Germany that has no respect for its own population. I will not fight for a Germany that is guilt ridden to the core. I will not fight for a Germany that does its utmost to destroy itsself. I will not fight for a Germany that rids itsself of all values that made it great. I will not fight for a Germany that does not respect free speech.

I would fight for a Germany that respects itsself and its people!
Well, not everyone wants to fight in a war. Not everyone wants to die just because your country decided to fight a war against another group.

I would only fight if I believed that my country was doing the right thing.
I'd fight for a Britain that was worth fighting for. But giving up my life for some starbuck's frappe-guzzling slut to complain about microaggressions and 'rape culture'? Nah. Giving my life for some no-faced elite like Rothschilds/Soros? Nah.
question is so ambiguous it is meaningless - would I fight for my country? totally depends on circumstances. I'm not going to go blindly into war just because my country says so, on one hand. On the other hand I'd like to think of myself as someone who would fight if basic rights were in danger.
These sorts of stats are useless without seeing the questions and possible answers of questions offered by the census taker.

It's like when the Sun published that 25% of British Muslims support ISIS ********, where the actually question was along the lines of "do you feel sympathy for those fighting in Syria?" which included the people opposing ISIS.

Especially when the last time Germany went down the mass patriotism "fight for your country" route it resulted in genocide, I can understand why the stat might not be that high. What are the circumstances of this hypothetical war? Is Germany being invaded? Are they invading someone?
(edited 7 years ago)

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