Muslim women are the "least successful group in society" report finds

The very headline is dishonest. The study shows that women have the lowest employment rate, and that most unemployed Muslim women are not looking for work. It shows that Muslim women are most likely to be housewives, not that they are least successful. In 1950 most British women were "unsuccessful" by that measure. On the other hand, at that time we had a naturally growing population.

But that's the whole point! Yes! They were unsuccessful. The 1950s was a much more sexist, patriarchal society than now. We have progressed. Islam has not. And it is very good at resisting morals evolving. That is the problem. It is very good at not integrating into existing societies.

I can't tell you how many were businesswomen during that time as I wasn't there and I can't find any record from during that time with that sort of information. However, the same present-day barriers to women's equality prevailed in 7th century Arabia, and Mohammad opposed them. Because in his own lifetime Muhammad improved women's position in society, many modern Muslims continue to value his example, which they cite when pressing for women's rights.

You are saying that they are unsuccessful because they choose values that (in your opinion) are wrong. The headline is implying they share your values, and are failing to live up to them. This is dishonest.

Given differential birthrate, the future is going to look like Islam, not the self-euthanising culture of the West.

No, by our measure (i.e. our values) they are unsuccessful. I am saying their values are contrasting to what we believe in. Liberty and freedom and equal opportunity regardless of gender. Women saying they are happy and it's what they want because from birth that's what their culture expects, does not make the free.

That someone in the West would defend their position is sad. Very sad.

I can't tell you how many were businesswomen during that time as I wasn't there and I can't find any record from during that time with that sort of information. However, the same present-day barriers to women's equality prevailed in 7th century Arabia, and Mohammad opposed them. Because in his own lifetime Muhammad improved women's position in society, many modern Muslims continue to value his example, which they cite when pressing for women's rights.

Oh, so if someone wants to be a doctor, would you bring up operation theater? Sounds weird but whatever tickles your pickles.

Spoken like a true brainwashed person.

History tells a different story. Open your eyes.

It is not flawed. The way you made your point was flawed. I know the study is bogus because I am not the only person to be in a good field. In my University, there are more muslim girls than guys who are aspiring to be doctors, lawyers and engineers. I go by what I observe not by some study over the internet.

He actually did, by the standards of their day. Women were more or less treated like women in Game of Thrones brothels were. He gave them a bit more dignity and covered them up. By the standards of our day, which are much more enlightened and egalitarian, he's a sexist misogynist man, but he did improve things for Arabian women of the time.

I see. What a great man.

I see. What a great man.

I am not saying that, I am only pointing out you were technically wrong. You see, criticism of religion has to be done right otherwise you'll be looked at as a bigot.

Well great for that time yes in what he did to improve the state of women.

He still raped little girls. But you want to call him great.

He actually did, by the standards of their day. Women were more or less treated like women in Game of Thrones brothels were. He gave them a bit more dignity and covered them up. By the standards of our day, which are much more enlightened and egalitarian, he's a sexist misogynist man, but he did improve things for Arabian women of the time.

I don't think you can pretend that Islam is not patriarchal by deliberate intent. Islam was not the first step on a road to the German womens' Olympic volleyball team circa 2016. Islam wanted women to be subject to specific men, so that there would be stable families producing a lot of Muslim children.

There are downsides of diverting economic activity to the production of children but as I have said before cultures that are below replacement have probably gone too far the other way.

As for denying women the early 20s no-strings dating free-for-all, it's not obvious that that actually harms women in the long run. Our current dating market mostly benefits very rich and/or attractive men, at the expense of women who can't get commitment and less attractive men who can't get anything.

Give me the proof he raped girls. Actual quotes from the Quran please, no hearsay will be accepted.