I disagree... You can choose to wear a wet suit or rash vest or a bikini or a swimsuit, but the burkini is not a choice in the same way. One day you might wear a bikini and the next a full body wet suit. If you are restricted to just a burkini then it is not really a choice. I find it tragically sad that some women cannot even go to a beach or participate in sport without feeling that they must dress a certain way...

The only misogyny here is a religion that treats women as a lower class than men, than condones their abuse and subservience to their husbands. Then the people who have read this book feel they have no choice but wear a burkini or face the persecution of their god try to defend it as an example of freedom...

:/

/thread

Reply 24

stripystockings

Original post by BaconandSauce

Then they can choose to not wear it and go to the beach or choose to wear it and not go

It is as you say their choice

Seriously? You honestly have no problem with banning people from being in certain areas based on their clothing? That's plain ridiculous. It's not like there's a health and safety issue where the clothing is going to impair their (or other's) ability to swim. It's just an item of clothing.

Reply 25

Brahmin of Booty

Original post by Ryanzmw

Nice strawman

It's not a straw man, it's completely on point because it's the French who are making it about religion.

I could put on a wetsuit, a t-shirt and a hat and it's totally legal, but if a Muslim does it, she will be arrested or fined, it's actually ridiculous.

Reply 26

Rakas21

In principal i find the notion of the state telling people what they should wear to be abhorrent however i actually have a lot of sympathy for the French since i believe that Islam should be restricted to the home. On balance, i probably support it.

Reply 27

Ryanzmw

Original post by Brahmin of Booty

A wetsuit, t-shirt and hat doesn't convey your religious belief to others and perhaps pressure others into adopting similar clothing which perhaps they may not want to wear.

Reply 28

BaconandSauce

Original post by stripystockings

Nope I don't

I think France and her people have the right to decide what laws they have

I am not so bigoted to think a person who has 'faith' should somehow be exempt and given Frances secular nature so ignorant of them and their culture to demand they have to change for a few newcomers

And no it's not just a swimming costume (hence the furore when trying to prevent a few people wearing them on one beach in France where a Muslim killed 50 odd people)

Reply 29

math42

I don't support the ban, and maybe the article has a point, but a situation where feminists are asked to lament this sort of thing over the far more destructive and widespread misogyny that Islamic countries perpetuate seems to be a tad Kafkaesque

Reply 30

Brahmin of Booty

Original post by Ryanzmw

A wetsuit, t-shirt and hat doesn't convey your religious belief to others and perhaps pressure others into adopting similar clothing which perhaps they may not want to wear.

How can you be sure, I'm a White man so I could probably get away with it, but if a brown woman puts on her wet suit with the gendarmerie take her away?

Reply 31

Brahmin of Booty

Original post by BaconandSauce

If France were majority Muslim and they voted to make Burqa's compulsory for everyone of all faiths, I presume you would also support that, because it is democracy right.

Reply 32

BaconandSauce

Original post by Rakas21

this

It's a shame people who are arguing about this are so ignorant about France and it's history and the culture that has resulted.

But as we know it's not about the principle it's about a few Muslims not being allowed to do as they like regardless

Reply 33

BaconandSauce

Original post by Brahmin of Booty

If France were majority Muslim and they voted to make Burqa's compulsory for everyone of all faiths, I presume you would also support that, because it is democracy right.

Would you?

Reply 34

Brahmin of Booty

Original post by 1 8 13 20 42

This is how I feel, in general I support freedom for women and I'm firmly on the side of the West, but I find these petty attacks on Muslims to be in very poor taste, undoubtedly alienating and completely hypocritical.

Reply 35

username1003420

Original post by BaconandSauce

Nothing

Well done for making a contribution to the thread

What harm is it causing exactly if these women choose to wear this? I don't understand your argument

Reply 36

Brahmin of Booty

Original post by BaconandSauce

Would you?

No, not at all, because I respect the right of the individual.

So would you?

Reply 37

MeMoiLove

Original post by BaconandSauce

Nothing

Well done for making a contribution to the thread

Like you did a better job.

Reply 38

BaconandSauce

Original post by 1 8 13 20 42

Quite.

My mother is 4th Generation feminist she find all Islamic clothing restriction abhorrent

I'd post this article to her but they just make her mad!