I'm a conservative; the tory government are not
I'm a conservative because I want there to be a natural environment for future generations. Not one annihilated by fracking, driven grouse shooting and sheep farming
I'm a conservative because I want to people to be able to afford their own homes. Not the lowest house building and the most unaffordable prices seen in decades
I'm a conservative because I think the family is an important part of society. Not where people are separated because one person does not quite make the income barrier or whose job is not deemed vital by some bureaucrat.
I could go one how education should not be in a constant state of flux and moving from crises to crises or how a one nation tory party wouldn't oversea a fall in social mobility but you get the point.
I'm a conservative because I want to people to be able to afford their own homes. Not the lowest house building and the most unaffordable prices seen in decades
I'm a conservative because I think the family is an important part of society. Not where people are separated because one person does not quite make the income barrier or whose job is not deemed vital by some bureaucrat.
I could go one how education should not be in a constant state of flux and moving from crises to crises or how a one nation tory party wouldn't oversea a fall in social mobility but you get the point.
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Well I agree on all counts but politically speaking I think condoning the ****ing of the environment is a fairly conservative policy, as conservatives favour less regulation and private ownership; similarly conservatives prefer not to tamper with the market, so if housing prices skyrocket I suppose conservatives will just shrug their shoulders and say that demand outstrips supply and that's that. While social conservatism naturally is in support of the traditional family, conservatives would argue that it is the bureaucrat's prerogative to deem the job vital or not, and that everybody is in control of their own income and can break through the barriers if they work hard enough.
It sounds like you are essentially just a well-meaning, sensible person...obviously in contrast to politicians
It sounds like you are essentially just a well-meaning, sensible person...obviously in contrast to politicians
Isn't there a difference here between values and politics?
As a small c conservative, you might not want to see education in a state of flux - this might be a conservative value you might say.
As a big C conservative, ones politics might be that the status quo is unacceptable and doesn't promote the environment to make possible other conservative values. If you believe that (for example) GCSEs are broken - do you leave them be in the status quo, or do you change them to something that you think supports ambition?
As a small c conservative, you might not want to see education in a state of flux - this might be a conservative value you might say.
As a big C conservative, ones politics might be that the status quo is unacceptable and doesn't promote the environment to make possible other conservative values. If you believe that (for example) GCSEs are broken - do you leave them be in the status quo, or do you change them to something that you think supports ambition?
Original post by skeptical_john
I'm a conservative because I want there to be a natural environment for future generations. Not one annihilated by fracking, driven grouse shooting and sheep farming
I'm a conservative because I want to people to be able to afford their own homes. Not the lowest house building and the most unaffordable prices seen in decades
I'm a conservative because I think the family is an important part of society. Not where people are separated because one person does not quite make the income barrier or whose job is not deemed vital by some bureaucrat.
I could go one how education should not be in a constant state of flux and moving from crises to crises or how a one nation tory party wouldn't oversea a fall in social mobility but you get the point.
I'm a conservative because I want to people to be able to afford their own homes. Not the lowest house building and the most unaffordable prices seen in decades
I'm a conservative because I think the family is an important part of society. Not where people are separated because one person does not quite make the income barrier or whose job is not deemed vital by some bureaucrat.
I could go one how education should not be in a constant state of flux and moving from crises to crises or how a one nation tory party wouldn't oversea a fall in social mobility but you get the point.
From what you say, it sounds like you would be better suited to the Labour party or possibly the Green Party. The Conservative party is more likely to welcome non-renewable energy and to do it for short term gain. The Conservative Party has been more likely to support hunting and sports which involve the killing of animals.
The Conservative party is also inclined to support the wealthy and business rather than those who are not so rich. They do this through tax cuts and by cutting inheritance tax...
Welcome to the modern day Tory Party 
Original post by skeptical_john
I'm a conservative because I want there to be a natural environment for future generations. Not one annihilated by fracking, driven grouse shooting and sheep farming
I'm a conservative because I want to people to be able to afford their own homes. Not the lowest house building and the most unaffordable prices seen in decades
I'm a conservative because I think the family is an important part of society. Not where people are separated because one person does not quite make the income barrier or whose job is not deemed vital by some bureaucrat.
I could go one how education should not be in a constant state of flux and moving from crises to crises or how a one nation tory party wouldn't oversea a fall in social mobility but you get the point.
I'm a conservative because I want to people to be able to afford their own homes. Not the lowest house building and the most unaffordable prices seen in decades
I'm a conservative because I think the family is an important part of society. Not where people are separated because one person does not quite make the income barrier or whose job is not deemed vital by some bureaucrat.
I could go one how education should not be in a constant state of flux and moving from crises to crises or how a one nation tory party wouldn't oversea a fall in social mobility but you get the point.
https://youtu.be/NKhhNX2C6xw
Original post by skeptical_john
I'm a conservative because I want there to be a natural environment for future generations. Not one annihilated by fracking, driven grouse shooting and sheep farming
I'm a conservative because I want to people to be able to afford their own homes. Not the lowest house building and the most unaffordable prices seen in decades
I'm a conservative because I think the family is an important part of society. Not where people are separated because one person does not quite make the income barrier or whose job is not deemed vital by some bureaucrat.
I could go one how education should not be in a constant state of flux and moving from crises to crises or how a one nation tory party wouldn't oversea a fall in social mobility but you get the point.
I'm a conservative because I want to people to be able to afford their own homes. Not the lowest house building and the most unaffordable prices seen in decades
I'm a conservative because I think the family is an important part of society. Not where people are separated because one person does not quite make the income barrier or whose job is not deemed vital by some bureaucrat.
I could go one how education should not be in a constant state of flux and moving from crises to crises or how a one nation tory party wouldn't oversea a fall in social mobility but you get the point.
You sound centre-wing, I'm like this but I'm also for women equality/LBGT etc...
Original post by 1 8 13 20 42
Well I agree on all counts but politically speaking I think condoning the ****ing of the environment is a fairly conservative policy, as conservatives favour less regulation and private ownership; similarly conservatives prefer not to tamper with the market, so if housing prices skyrocket I suppose conservatives will just shrug their shoulders and say that demand outstrips supply and that's that. While social conservatism naturally is in support of the traditional family, conservatives would argue that it is the bureaucrat's prerogative to deem the job vital or not, and that everybody is in control of their own income and can break through the barriers if they work hard enough.
It sounds like you are essentially just a well-meaning, sensible person...obviously in contrast to politicians
It sounds like you are essentially just a well-meaning, sensible person...obviously in contrast to politicians
I think your view of conservatism is solely informed by the recent times and neo-cons.
Original post by SaucissonSecCy
I think your view of conservatism is solely informed by the recent times and neo-cons.
Well I make a distinction between conservative political values and just good old conservative values. Did they not split a long time ago? I mean I'm thinking of it in terms of the two definitions that come up when you google it
"averse to change or innovation and holding traditional values." conservative
"favouring free enterprise, private ownership, and socially conservative ideas." politically conservative
Original post by skeptical_john
I'm a conservative because I want there to be a natural environment for future generations. Not one annihilated by fracking, driven grouse shooting and sheep farming
I'm a conservative because I want to people to be able to afford their own homes. Not the lowest house building and the most unaffordable prices seen in decades
I'm a conservative because I think the family is an important part of society. Not where people are separated because one person does not quite make the income barrier or whose job is not deemed vital by some bureaucrat.
I could go one how education should not be in a constant state of flux and moving from crises to crises or how a one nation tory party wouldn't oversea a fall in social mobility but you get the point.
I'm a conservative because I want to people to be able to afford their own homes. Not the lowest house building and the most unaffordable prices seen in decades
I'm a conservative because I think the family is an important part of society. Not where people are separated because one person does not quite make the income barrier or whose job is not deemed vital by some bureaucrat.
I could go one how education should not be in a constant state of flux and moving from crises to crises or how a one nation tory party wouldn't oversea a fall in social mobility but you get the point.
I'm a Conservative too, my big issue with the government is welfare policy.
Environment - Your stance on this issue is actually quite common among Shire Tories (middle class, old, NIMBY's). I however tend to oppose your view in that i think there's a good case to be made for conservatism to be about self reliance and supporting the general physical development of our infrastructure (in this case our energy infrastructure).
Housing - With regards to supply i somewhat agree in that one of the things that is fundamental to conservatism in Britain is the notion of a property owning democracy, the ultimate symbol of conservatism delivering upon the aspirations of the people. The current housing policy is somewhat tame and not effective enough although i wouldn't say it's especially unconservative. The obsession with intervening in the credit markets (help to buy ect..) is more of a concern.
I somewhat agree if this is regarding immigration albeit i'm a monoculturalist so immigration from the Anglosphere must be the priority with a free movement lite deal rather than a beaurocratic points system.
Generally speaking i agree with you in the sense that health and education especially are subject to constant and somewhat needless change. I very much agree with the Gove reforms though so that may be an inference i disagree with. I think that social mobility has stalled but that it's more of an inherited problem rather than once caused by them.
Original post by 1 8 13 20 42
Well I make a distinction between conservative political values and just good old conservative values. Did they not split a long time ago? I mean I'm thinking of it in terms of the two definitions that come up when you google it
"averse to change or innovation and holding traditional values." conservative
"favouring free enterprise, private ownership, and socially conservative ideas." politically conservative
"averse to change or innovation and holding traditional values." conservative
"favouring free enterprise, private ownership, and socially conservative ideas." politically conservative
Probably worth saying that there's some anecdotal evidence to suggest that peak Thatcherite occurred with the 2005 intake. Tory MP's as a group are (if we believe the media types who write about these things) moving a bit further left.
Fracking is a good policy imo.
I have a couple of friends doing Geology A-Level and they all say that it's good.
There are much worse ways to obtain energy such as UCG, coal mining etc.
Many of the people standing up to the government on fracking also think it was a shame that Thatcher shut down the mines. Get with the bigger picture mate, fracking is much better for the environment than coal mining (and pretty much all mining).
As for the grouse shooting, it's a countryside thing and me as a city person probably shouldn't be too arsed about someone else's culture.
I'm not a big fan of the government but really, you're picking up on the wrong things.
I have a couple of friends doing Geology A-Level and they all say that it's good.
There are much worse ways to obtain energy such as UCG, coal mining etc.
Many of the people standing up to the government on fracking also think it was a shame that Thatcher shut down the mines. Get with the bigger picture mate, fracking is much better for the environment than coal mining (and pretty much all mining).
As for the grouse shooting, it's a countryside thing and me as a city person probably shouldn't be too arsed about someone else's culture.
I'm not a big fan of the government but really, you're picking up on the wrong things.
Original post by Davij038
The general protection of pensioners at the cost of others and not so much the policies but the incompetent implementation.
The founder of modern day conservatism, Edmund Burke would not support the Conservative party today.
He was an anti-capitalist, he believed that institutions were better run by the government than private enterprise as through experience they gain wisdom and become better.
What about the Conservative party today is actually conservative? They want to take large amounts of state industries and hand them over to the private sector. They want to shake up our education and health systems. They are the party of radical change, not the party of genuine conservatism.
He was an anti-capitalist, he believed that institutions were better run by the government than private enterprise as through experience they gain wisdom and become better.
What about the Conservative party today is actually conservative? They want to take large amounts of state industries and hand them over to the private sector. They want to shake up our education and health systems. They are the party of radical change, not the party of genuine conservatism.
Original post by skeptical_john
I'm a conservative because I want there to be a natural environment for future generations. Not one annihilated by fracking, driven grouse shooting and sheep farming
I'm a conservative because I want to people to be able to afford their own homes. Not the lowest house building and the most unaffordable prices seen in decades
I'm a conservative because I think the family is an important part of society. Not where people are separated because one person does not quite make the income barrier or whose job is not deemed vital by some bureaucrat.
I could go one how education should not be in a constant state of flux and moving from crises to crises or how a one nation tory party wouldn't oversea a fall in social mobility but you get the point.
I'm a conservative because I want to people to be able to afford their own homes. Not the lowest house building and the most unaffordable prices seen in decades
I'm a conservative because I think the family is an important part of society. Not where people are separated because one person does not quite make the income barrier or whose job is not deemed vital by some bureaucrat.
I could go one how education should not be in a constant state of flux and moving from crises to crises or how a one nation tory party wouldn't oversea a fall in social mobility but you get the point.
Based on those things, you’re not really a conservative... the tories love deregulation and laissez-faire markets, which naturally leads to firms doing what they want and this could mean ripping up the environment. So theres just one thing.
Original post by skeptical_john
I'm a conservative because I want there to be a natural environment for future generations. Not one annihilated by fracking, driven grouse shooting and sheep farming
I'm a conservative because I want to people to be able to afford their own homes. Not the lowest house building and the most unaffordable prices seen in decades
I'm a conservative because I think the family is an important part of society. Not where people are separated because one person does not quite make the income barrier or whose job is not deemed vital by some bureaucrat.
I could go one how education should not be in a constant state of flux and moving from crises to crises or how a one nation tory party wouldn't oversea a fall in social mobility but you get the point.
I'm a conservative because I want to people to be able to afford their own homes. Not the lowest house building and the most unaffordable prices seen in decades
I'm a conservative because I think the family is an important part of society. Not where people are separated because one person does not quite make the income barrier or whose job is not deemed vital by some bureaucrat.
I could go one how education should not be in a constant state of flux and moving from crises to crises or how a one nation tory party wouldn't oversea a fall in social mobility but you get the point.
Mate, the Tory government has been a liberal since David Cameron became leader in December 2005
Original post by RealLifeJoker
Mate, the Tory government has been a liberal since David Cameron became leader in December 2005
Neo-liberal perhaps
If you care about the enviorment surel you would invest in fracking?
Granted fracking in the UK is negliable. But if China started doing it and other countries and fracking replaced coal power stations you would see huge reductions in green house gases. Fracking often gets seen as this big evil thing but for developing countries it is really not; seeing as we all live in one planet shouldn't we support fracking as a practical way to reduce green house gases even if its not perfect?
Imagine if China or India used fracking and the reduction that would cause. For more than buying a Oyster card or a reusable carrier bag thats for sure.
You should look up some articles regarding this as it is quite interesting andmay change your mind.
As for housing. The majority of tories are home owners and do not want to see a reduction in house prices. Which will happen if you build affordable homes on a mass scale.
As for the family thing I do not get it.
Granted fracking in the UK is negliable. But if China started doing it and other countries and fracking replaced coal power stations you would see huge reductions in green house gases. Fracking often gets seen as this big evil thing but for developing countries it is really not; seeing as we all live in one planet shouldn't we support fracking as a practical way to reduce green house gases even if its not perfect?
Imagine if China or India used fracking and the reduction that would cause. For more than buying a Oyster card or a reusable carrier bag thats for sure.
You should look up some articles regarding this as it is quite interesting andmay change your mind.
As for housing. The majority of tories are home owners and do not want to see a reduction in house prices. Which will happen if you build affordable homes on a mass scale.
As for the family thing I do not get it.
(edited 4 years ago)
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