Grammar schools to return

I went to a school where the results for GCSE English, maths and just about every other subject that wasn't mixed ability set, ranged from A* to C across the top set. The less intelligent students definitely slowed the class down and held people back.

I dont see why people disagree with grammar schools? Its a great idea for students who are intelligent but don't have the money to go to a private school. If anything there should be more grammar schools.

Yes they do have sets, but some schools have mixed ability sets, that's where the disadvantages come in. My mom's top set at her deprived school was A*-C, so it varies across the country. A lot of factors come into play, especially having a small year group and small number of classes, it allows more time to teach and more stuff to go through therefore increasing the possibility of high grades. So this is all debatable.



I can see where you are coming from. You are saying you want standards to rise in comprehensive school education but seriously... have they? They have not been rising and nothing is changing.

I wish all comprehensive schools had high standards of education, but they don't. This is why I like grammar schools, it gives a last chance for people who can't afford private school education to get high standards of education because it is simply not possible for all schools across the country to be of high standard. I really wish that could be the case or else my parents wouldn't have made me go, but that is simply unrealistic...



I hope you don't mind me asking, but why should they not exist? My local comprehensives are all "requiring improvement" and are new academies. Why should I go to them instead of grammar schools?



Of the students you are talking about, are they the majority or minority? Because if it's the minority then that's my point, a very small number want to do well in deprived areas.



Even if they don't get in. As I said they can try again in 13+ exams and even if that doesn't work they can still work hard in the local comp they go to, nothing limits you except yourself.



No, that's just selectively looking at it. I am saying they should unban it and improve standards of comprehensives at the same time. Then once the standards are high enough we can get rid of grammar schools, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. Do you?

I agree, they need to look at us more than just statistics on paper. We are more than that and that's why I said previously I want the government to look at this as a serious issue and bring in radical reform.



I was reading a study recently. Schools are not responsible for social mobility it is actually economic and social policies. So having a country with high wages and high employment increases social mobility. Things like the Living Wage helps this, and it is set to increase again. In the future we should see a increase in average wage as long as we have good economic policies. As a result, social mobility should increase.



Grammar schools isn't really a kick to the poor. I have addressed this already, there is this assumption that grammar schools are full of posh, middle-class kids. I have first-hand experience and as a person in a working-class family that isn't entirely true. A lot of factors come in to play, especially where these grammar schools are placed. As said previously, I go to one in one of the most deprived areas in the country, the majority of the kids that go there are working-class.

Well can I just remind you who created these tuition fees in the first place. The exact politicians people say they trust because they say they care about us working-class people, they don't. Mr Tony Blair created it with his Labour government, so-called socialists. A lot of people forget this.

I would like to go to university one day, I am not going to let fees and grants come in the way of my future. I am pretty sure the hard working students you talk about would feel the same too.



At this moment in time, I do not see any other way students who can achieve and work hard to get a high standard of education without applying to a grammar school.

Grammar school application has increased drastically. For my school when I applied, it was a total of 1,000. Now it is 5,000 that applied last year. This is a clear sign that parents don't want their kids going to low-standard schools. Many children don't get to go to their first choice school and are often not satisfied with the school they go to.

We can agree on this that there is a crisis, and still, not one government has solved this crisis. We have a shortage of teachers, academy executives being paid more than the PM, standards going down and a potential increase in class sizes. You can see when the government gets desperate when they start advertising these stuff on TVs and online, even abroad. 7
This is simply a recipe for disaster.

I went to a school where the results for GCSE English, maths and just about every other subject that wasn't mixed ability set, ranged from A* to C across the top set. The less intelligent students definitely slowed the class down and held people back.



If students are never going to achieve well academically why not steer them toward a trade rather than getting them a C in history?


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I think that book is rubbish here is an article about how athletes really need talent.The fact that the best women can't run as fast as men shows that sporting success must be due to genes as not having the Y chromosome makes such a huge difference proving the book to be utter rubbish as it mentions sporting stars.

I have already quoted studies showing that genetics is the dominant factor, indeed it has to be or Darwin was wrong as humans have developed intelligence superior to animals and must have done by evolution if Darwin was right and thus intelligence must be highly genetic.

My own experience would prove you wrong as I excelled at school even when I didn't try hard I use to only work hard for exams and during my AS year I had major depression difficulties which meant I had to have regular GP visits and I really was losing the motivation to do my work and I didn't revise for my mocks but I got near to 100% in my Maths and Physics ones.Also, my college lecturers use to get really angry at how lazy some of my Maths friends were as they would barely do any work in the class and some students didn't like it as they always ended up getting great grades where as they worked and still couldn't understand it.Another part of my proof will be Stephen Hawking, if you do some research you will find he was a very lazy student and he didn't complete a lot of his exams as he couldn't remember stuff but just about got a first through stuff he could naturally do.

I think my school experiences are probably even better indicators as I didn't work until the exams for most of school and yet I achieved near to the best grades in mock exams and tests and generally performed the best in class quickly grasping concepts quicker than anyone else could from a very young age.Like I said earlier I think noone in the class could factorise quadratics but I could factorise them in my head just naturally.One of Maths teachers use to consider me naturally gifted in Maths and teachers generally saw me as an incredible genius and students sometimes complained when teachers said I had finished and why they hadn't because they couldn't be expected to compete with me and my teachers often speculated about how famous I would become(they did get carried away though).

However, I do know some clever students at school and teachers would even say this at times who could do a lot better but didn't perform too well as they didn't behave and weren't motivated to do well.

I'd certainly agree that you generally need training with natural talent(maybe not the case if you are an incredible genius like Hawking?), which is exactly why I support Grammar Schools to give the cleverest students from poor backgrounds their best chance and to prevent them misbehaving and losing motivation to do well.Working Class Students are much less likely to have the natural talent required so even training won't help them.Its clear without natural talent you have very little and you have some chance if you only have natural talent but to maximise your chances you need training and natural talent.

I am very lucky to be naturally gifted from an underclass background probably due to my parents carrying good genes, genes that have been successful in my Uncles/Aunt who were very successful my Uncle got the best results at school(like me) and got a PhD and did end up becoming a millionaire.

You are 100% wrong. The daughter of my maths teacher failed her O level maths so how can intelligence be genetic, it makes a complete mockery of your so called Darwin theory which only applied to monkeys anyway.

You are 100% wrong. The daughter of my maths teacher failed her O level maths so how can intelligence be genetic, it makes a complete mockery of your so called Darwin theory which only applied to monkeys anyway.

If comprehensive schools had more teachers, class sizes could be smaller and top sets could be separated out.
How can you tell at the age of 11 if someone is never going to achieve well academically? What if they pick up the pace in year 10 as many students do? What if they have an SEN which isn't diagnosed, but once it is the relevant support is put in place and then they achieve well? I am by no means suggesting that every person goes to university, but every child is entitled to a good education up to the age of 18.

Theresa May is set to remove the ban on grammar schools.

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/theresa-may-to-end-ban-on-new-grammar-schools/ar-BBvkxT1?li=BBoPRmx

Are you happy or angry

As someone from a very very low income family who has attended a free grammar school, I am ecstatic about new grammar schools perhaps being created. I come from a single parent family, and neither parent went to university or even obtained A-Levels. I did not have a tutor to pass the entrance exam. My mum purchased a few standard entrance exam books and I practiced hard to do well. Plenty of people who were tutored did not pass the entrance exam.
Grammar schools not just for middle class children - they're for intelligent children. I disagree with grammar schools that aren't free, as that does filter out the poorer, yet academically strong, students from attending.
I've mixed with people from middle class and working class families. But the point of a free grammar school is not which class you're from. It is genuinely just centered around academic progress. I've never been looked down on for my household income. It would be ridiculous for anyone to be at a free grammar school. The point is that you receive an education which is comparable to a private education, but without the cost.
Anyone who has attended a free grammar school understands the benefits. Most people are from ordinary families, and I think the only difference between us and other non-grammars is the pace at which we get taught. There are high demands academically, and while it can be stressful, it helps people from low income families get into those top universities and dilute the privately-educated stronghold in Oxbridge and Durham etc.
There is nothing wrong with having a school that does not have a wide-ranging level of academic ability. The issue is when there is no range in social 'status' between pupils and their families. But as someone who has experienced a grammar school herself, I feel completely justified in saying that people are allowed a great, free education. Yes, there are amazing teachers in non-selective schools, but if you want that push, and have teachers give attention to everyone, not just those who are struggling, then grammars are great.
If the issue is about catchment areas being limited to middle class neighborhoods (which isn't true for the school I attend), then surely building more grammar schools would solve that issue...

You are exactly what I have been saying.

Well I feel like all the people crapping on grammar schools have no idea what it is actually like to attend one. Think people have misunderstood their purpose and the reality of how mixed they actually are.

Why shouldn't intelligent children go to a school with other more intelligent children.

My sister attends TGGS in Torbay and students from a 2hour drive away travel so they can go their.

Let's put it this way I missed the grammar school by 2 marks because of my English (weakest subject).

At my comprehensive school,my maths class ranged from A grade students (me) to D grade students. My maths teacher spent most of his time teaching very basic maths to the D grade students as he had to focus on getting them a C at GCSE as opposed to making sure the students with more potential got the best grades they could.

I still got an A because I went and saw him at lunch times which he didn't have to do.

Now I didn't get in the grammar school because of my English but other students will have similar stories.

I go to a grammar school (free) and there are definitely benefits but definitely downsides to it.On the plus side, I can tell that my grades have gotten a lot better. I also study a lot more as I have more motivation. But, on the other hand... ITS STRESSFUL! I feel as if I have to become a lawyer or a doctor and to do so I need to be working 24/7. Overall I’m glad I go, but it’s definitely not perfect and budget cuts aren’t helping either.