Muslims "in the crosshairs of bigotry"

And yet, women were able to hold poitions of influence, manage their own affairs, and inherit familiy wealth in pre-Islamic Arabia (see Khadija, Muhammad's first wife).
Something doesn't add up.

And yet, women were able to hold poitions of influence, manage their own affairs, and inherit familiy wealth in pre-Islamic Arabia (see Khadija, Muhammad's first wife).
Something doesn't add up.

Yes. And she was all those things (having inherited the business from her father) before Muhammad invented Islam.

Common you are smarter than this
Before Momo invented islam this was the privilege of the elites. Khadija is from a very rich and prestigious family.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khadija_bint_Khuwaylid#Biography
Give momo and his entourage credit where due

Common you are smarter than this
Before Momo invented islam this was the privilege of the elites. Khadija is from a very rich and prestigious family.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khadija_bint_Khuwaylid#Biography
Give momo and his entourage credit where due
The inheritance business + the limitations on multiple wives both numerically and by implementing thresholds was groundbreaking(sand-drilling) stuff.

wikipedia actually says she became a very wealthy trader once she had inherited the business from her merchant father - who it isnt mentioned was particulalry wealthy. all you have shown is that rights of inheritance ( full inheritance) existed long before mohammed decided to half it for women, and that women were able to own their own business assets and be bosses of their own financial matters before mohammed came along and changed all that

Either these things were possible before Islam, or they were not. The details apply equally to pre- and post-Islam Arabia.

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However, the important issue is the ability for progress. The infallible immutability of the Quran prevents further progress

Ijtihad (Arabic: اجتهاد‎‎ ijtihād, lit. effort, physical or mental, expended in a particular activity)^[1] is an Islamic legal term referring to independent reasoning^[2] or the thorough exertion of a jurist's mental faculty in finding a solution to a legal question.^[1] It is contrasted with taqlid (imitation, conformity to legal precedent).^[2][3] According to classical Sunni theory, ijtihad requires expertise in the Arabic language, theology, revealed texts, and principles of jurisprudence (usul al-fiqh),^[2] and is not employed where authentic and authoritative texts (Qur'an and hadith) are considered unambiguous with regard to the question, or where there is an existing scholarly consensus (ijma).^[1] Ijtihad is considered to be a religious duty for those qualified to perform it.^[2] An Islamic scholar who is qualified to perform ijtihad is called a mujtahid.^[1]

Khadija became a very successful merchant
this is what it says and it's a baseless but harmless hyperbole. she's from one of the top-5 families of Quraish, they were, and perhaps still are, rich as ****.
average arabian women had no rights before : This is very clear to anyone who has any understanding of agrarian societies/ warrior/ nomadic tribes. You will be hard pressed to find any legit research. however, It is not unreasonable to think that the treatment of inheritance was similar to what some of their neighbours were doing. well the jews in Cannan and much closer, in Yathrib & Madina had 0 inheritance for daughters :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inheritance#Jewish_laws_of_inheritance
Momo & Co decided to somewhat fix this : one has to give credit where due

as far as i could see he changed the rules effectivley stopping women like khadija becoming as successful as she was pre-islam. if womens rights were high up on Mo's hitlist, im sure he could have stretched to more than half a womens share for inheritence

First, we don't know that. Khadija's family was really special again. Her father had 1 son and 2 daughters, we don't know how he split the stuff :/
Second, Mo&Co are realistic folks who had to deal with real world problems

: there's a limit to how many privileges you can stretch from the average pre-islamic arab before he tells you to **** of. maybe Mo&Co wanted to install monogamy, but go convince a guy who's used to having 99 wives renewing them and discarding them as he pleases to keep only one for ... life.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ridda_wars are a sign that Mo&Co actually really stretched it a bit too much for the tastes of the local tribesmen and leaders.

I mean common, i have to pay taxes now ? severe limitations on slavery ? i need to marry a woman before ****ing her and can't just dump her afterwards... u gotta understand them

Hmmm.... dont really see how 'real life' he was , if you read some of his other rules, theories and edicts.




well, 4 but anyway. Mo kept the priviledge of double figure wife reserves for himself. i agree tho that the pre-islamic arab would take offense in general, to an illiterate hitherto nobody who worked for his wife - who then proclaimed himself king of all the arabs and demanded mecca to become his personal kingdom. Youd imagine theyd all get the hump, and in fact take up arms to defend their land - oh wait they did. he wasnt then much of the prophet if he wasnt able to convince these guys.


the riddah wars came after Mo had died, and came about in the power vacuum he left. Again predictably - grand supreme leader of the arabs drops out the picture without setting up his successor - all hell breaks loose. ( can argue has been kicking off for the last 1200 years in the islamic world)


but he still allowed the beat the crap out of their wives if they were lippy, allowed them to keep all the female sex slaves they could catch ( as long as they werent muslim) plus he promised them a bunch of big breasted virgins in his idea of the after life. so very much an all round sales pitch for the average arab desert dweller. id guess though even Mo would be surprised to see his pitch is still being touted to english muslims in 2016

The killing of non Muslims is never mentioned. if you actually read the arabic it says polytheists i.e. the people who betrayed muhammad. If at any point they sought forgiveness or asylum the Muslims had to give it to them.
If you think the bible is a very peaceful book you obviously havent some part which are very extreme.
The subjugation of women believe it or not is actually because of cultural beliefs. Islam placed women in a very high place. In Islam men and women are equals.

Re-read your statement, you just suggested that our society allows child marriage, and endorsed it.

"most muslims aren't like that"? a 2011 UK poll suggested that 100% of muslims asked think homosexuality is "unacceptable" - and 75% of them thought people should be criminalised for insulting the prophet muhammad...and 50% thought gay people should be jailed. it's hard to not generalise with figures like those

edit: thank you shadow mod for editing out my "islam is the most bigoted religion in existence" statement...I'm sure you meant to make that more clear but nah

Maybe I said exactly what I meant

Thanks for pointing that out haha.

The "other major religions" being Christianity and Judaism, I presume? Have you heard of the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza or the invasion of Iraq?

Christianity and Judaism as ideologies are also bad. Islam is just much worse.

Assume you are right, and the Quran is this wonderful, magnificent book with the most amazing morals.

How come Muslims that are meant to live by it, have such **** culture? How come so many interpret it in such disgusting ways?

Their culture is reflective of their county not their religion. Just because a country is Muslim doesn't mean their culture will be islamic. Take for example Pakistani honour killings which have nothing to do with Islam rather it's their culture which makes them do that because in Islam as long as the person is Muslim you can marry them. The parents permission nor agreement is required even for women.
Most of the time it's because of their own lack of knowledge or because someone has taught them an extremist mentality. If you have the knowhow you wouldn't interpret the quran in the way done people do. The key word is interpret which means some people will do it right but others obviously won't. It's like having a normal everyday jew trying to interpret the meaning of the old Hebrew scriptures without a high enough understanding.

Typical Islam apologist saying it's culture not the religion.

Even if that were true, the point remains. Their culture is incompatible with ours.