Netherlands on brink of BANNING sale of PETROL and DIESEL cars.

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****. I was planning on moving to the Netherlands for the cheap hookers and legal Mary Jane, but I've changed my mind now.

Reply 21

Just_Another_One

As much as I love my motor cars. GOOD! CYCLING FOREVER.

Reply 22

The_Internet

Original post by paul514

Sounds unrealistic to me.

I think we should be running coal power stations and charging customers as if we weren't therefore paying for these new greener ways of producing energy in advance.

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How is it unrealistic? We are making great strides with renewable energy and China is really bringing the cost down. We are also propping up nuclear power plants

Original post by #ChaosKass

*sigh* Liberal climate change lunatics at it again. Ridiculous.

Right... This is JUST something that liberal people should support eh?Let's not forget that ICE cars cause health issues - including my own, even though it's a hybrid
Let's not forget that we will eventually run out of fossil fuels
Let's not forget that electric cars are a hell of a lot cheaper to run - there are great economic benefits
Let's not forget that non moving parts are also usually a hell of a lot more reliable - again, an economic benefit for the consumer
Let's not also forget that by producing our own electricity here in the UK, using natural resources, we don't have to then rely on foreign powers who only trade with us because they have to. They may absolutely hate us

If any thing, this is also..progress. We are entering a new "era" of human history. We are living in the oil age, and we are slowly entering a new greener age.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 23

The_Internet

Original post by alexschmalex

Not gonna happen, the Dutch government makes too much from taxing the hell out of new car sales. How will they fund all the fixing of the perfect roads??

They can tax these too yknow. They can essentially FORCE adoption. There is no need to offer 5K off, when it's law that you can't have an ICE vehicle

Reply 24

The_Internet

Original post by Rakas21

If your still going to shaft the consumer then there's no point being so convoluted, just do what Germany is doing and pile into renewables.

I too want coal but i'd rather the consumer got the full benefit until the technology to replace it reaches full grid parity.

Why do you want coal? Aside from the fact that it's cheap?

Reply 25

username1148663

Original post by The_Internet

Why do you want coal? Aside from the fact that it's cheap?

Because either

You get much cheaper energy

Or

You pay the same as if you have renewables whilst using coal to pay for the provision of renewables then close down the coal

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Reply 26

TercioOfParma

Jesus, they need to lay off the pot.

Reply 27

Joinedup

The consumer won't get the running cost benefit, governments will find some way of taxing the hell out of electricity to make up for the loss in revenue from petrol/diesel taxes.

Reply 28

Rakas21

Original post by The_Internet

Why do you want coal? Aside from the fact that it's cheap?

Mainly because it is cheap and unlike say nuclear, you can commission or decommision coal plants pretty quickly.

I only really want the coal plants until Germany hits the 75% annual renewables as i said before, at that point we'd repeat their process over say 5 or 10 years.

Until they hit that mark though, there's no reason to shaft the consumer with expensive bills.

Reply 29

The_Internet

Original post by Rakas21

Tbh, define "expensive" A lot of the country use the big six for their energy. I've generally found that even if you got 100% renewable from other smaller firms, it is STILL cheaper than the big six (usually) Though between smaller renewable and non renewable firms, the price difference is maybe £6/month. I guess £6/month is a lot to some people, but if you're fairly middle class it won't break the bank For the record, I'm considering moving to 100% renewable as it isn't that much more expensive, though ecotricity apparently invests a lot of it's customer's money back in to renewables whilst others don't

Though then again, I wonder how many people are on tariffs with the big six, where they don't regularly switch?

You can of course get bio methane too, which is turning waste in to gas but the average gas bill is increased by around £22 extra/month

^ Though I do take your point. I got a little side tracked there, with the whole "Well not every one uses small companies like I do and pay through the roof for it"

Reply 30

Rakas21

Original post by The_Internet

I'm saying that if we build a tonne of renewable or that Hinkley point nuclear plant now then you will be shafted because prices are not at anything like grid parity. Firms like ecotricity (i'm with them mainly because the last tenant was) may well produce some green energy but it all gets fed into the grid with the fossil fuel stuff which is why we don't have a coal producer charging you nothing and ecotricity charging you £100.

If we hold off until Germany has done the leg work and proven its possible to fuel a nation our size then we can build renewables at much closer to current grid parity.

*Not against nuclear per say but Hinkley is an awful deal for the UK.

Reply 31

The_Internet

Original post by Rakas21

Oh I do get your point. I just got a tad sidetracked :biggrin:

And same regarding nuclear energy. I see it as something we need in the interim and eventually we probably wouldn't need it (Or we may crack affordable, and efficient fusion in a few decades maybe), but Hinckley would likely be cheaper to build ourselves, though I suspect there's more to play here ie: we let the Chinese gov't invest in our energy, at rip off prices, and we get slightly more favourable trade deals as a result

Personally, when I buy a house, I'm getting energy with flux (Or find another supplier that has micro chp boilers), because well the boiler "free" so long as you commit to a five year contract, negating the additional cost that flux energy charges in bills.(The boiler creates energy for the grid, which reduces costs. The only caveat is that there is no way in which to store that energy, like you can with solar. Once it's created, it's gone off to the grid). For my parents however (I pay their bills) they can likely get free boilers for life, owing to well not earning that much, so it's probably not something I'd buy then.

With regards to electric cars, I do want a driveway, because well then I don't need to rely on public chargers which take forever to charge. I mean the alternative is to use hydrogen powered cars like the Toyota Mirai however hydrogen is about as expensive as petrol is, and I read that it's not as efficient as well one way you're getting your energy from a power plant which is inherently a lot more efficient and one way it's produced "on site" I mean they'll get cheaper as time goes on, but also hydrogen cars themselves are inherently more expensive to begin with too, though admittedly the Mirai looks a hell of a lot nicer and is packed with more stuff than a lot of electric cars (bar maybe the Tesla model 3)