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There is no evidence for God

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Original post by inhuman
No, they understood that they had no idea how something works so before not doing anything, they would pray for a good harvest to a God and offer gifts. Or they would offer gifts for a safe voyage across sea. These people believed in Gods. We would call them superstitious now.

Monotheistic religions are no different in that sense. They are just a spiritual superstition that comfort those that believe. That on its own is perfectly fine.

What is not fine is people a) trying to make out that it "proves" existence and b) when it leads to abhorrent practices e.g. witch burnings or Islamic culture.

And the last part, even if that is true, that is still not evidence for the existence of God. What is really disheartening is that you people don't get that. And if you really were that happy, you wouldn't be so adamant on trying to fallaciously prove it. You would just accept it's faith that you have and that you could be wrong. Because you would be happy and content with yourself before God.


What is it with you people thinking that religion was just to explain the unknown. No, it teaches you how to live a good life. And so what if people have customs that may be superstitious, at least they're inventive and creative unlike boring atheists that would rather believe in nothing.
Plus i'm not going to try prove it to people as cynical as you, that would be a waste of time. I'm just stating my view.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by inhuman
Why do you need to prove that God exists? In the end you have faith. That's all.
Because i believe it's not just about me. I want to motivate and inspire as much people as i can to get to know God. No one would want to go to Hell so i want to try my best to convince them of the existence of God, help them overcome their unbelief and have faith in God, trust him and love him and hopefully they can be saved and be relinquished of their sin. "Do not neglect to do good" . :u:
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Retropattern
What is it with you people thinking that religion was just to explain the unknown. No, it teaches you how to live a good life. And so what if people have customs that may be superstitious, at least they're inventive and creative unlike you boring atheists that would rather believe in nothing.


1. Because it was. Until it was used as a form of social control and oppression.

2. I don't need a 2000 year old book to tell me how to live a good life.

3. Inventive and creative? "Muh magic" is your answer to everything. We strive to understand the world as it functions scientifically. Meanwhile "muh magic" is all you can come up with.

4. What is wrong with believing in nothing? Not that I do, I believe in a lot of things, just not ones that are fairy tales. Wouldn't you agree that still believing in the tooth fairy as an adult is, well, sad?
Original post by inhuman
A very honest and moving account, so thank you for that. And I have no doubt that many people like you feel some sort of spiritual need and spiritual happiness from believing in God.

But to think that that is evidence for the existence of God, is wrong, to put it nicely.


I never said there was evidence for the existence of God. I'm simply explaining why and I think you literally misinterpreted what I was saying.

My whole point was saying religion is a spiritual thing and you do not need any evidence for something like that. Regardless what you call the deity in the sky a God or not.

It's the same principle for the "mind". It's only a concept but there's no evidence to suggest it's a thing. It's just a thought-concept to explain what we think and why we think. But people accept it as being something that's true.

Why can't people understand that "religion" is a concept that doesn't need evidence to believe in. It's something that just is.

I'm not going to argue with you or anything about my reasoning or beliefs. But that's my opinion. Have a good day.
Original post by Paranoid_Glitch
Well i do. But here's the problem by telling you that i believe in the existence of God would most probably not change your mind. Why? Because i would be simply declaring my faith and belief in God based of personal experience, spiritual experience. That is the nature of religion, whether people establish a reason as to why science does or does not disprove the existence of God and his work, when they declare there faith for God it will most frequently be based on personal experience rather than conspicuous evidence, through faith.

Is there any proof of evolution?


It's impossible to determine whether Gods exist in any meaningful way (scientifically) through personal experience. I have a problem with the word 'faith' itself, which implies something noble about believing things that are fundamentally contrary to reason.

It's not noble to come to an illogical conclusion, so instead of using that term, perhaps say "I'd be declaring my fundamentally irrational belief in a deity I have no reason and never will have any reason to believe but do so anyway because I was coerced to as a child by all my authority figures using fear and indoctrination, and have been taught that my life would be worthless if I didn't believe"
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Paranoid_Glitch
Because i believe it's not just about me. I want to motivate and inspire as much people as i can to get to know God. No one would want to go to Hell so i want to try my best to convince them of the existence of God, help them overcome their unbelief and have faith in God, trust him and love him and hopefully they can be saved and be relinquished of their sin. "Do not neglect to do good" . :u:


Do I deserve to burn in hell for eternity because I don't believe you?
Original post by Retropattern
What is it with you people thinking that religion was just to explain the unknown. No, it teaches you how to live a good life. And so what if people have customs that may be superstitious, at least they're inventive and creative unlike boring atheists that would rather believe in nothing.


Rubbish. People were living good lives long before religion came about, it's pretty sad if you can't live a decent life without an ancient book telling you to.

False, atheists believe in plenty of things, they just don't believe in God.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by The Empire Odyssey
I never said there was evidence for the existence of God. I'm simply explaining why and I think you literally misinterpreted what I was saying.

My whole point was saying religion is a spiritual thing and you do not need any evidence for something like that. Regardless what you call the deity in the sky a God or not.

It's the same principle for the "mind". It's only a concept but there's no evidence to suggest it's a thing. It's just a thought-concept to explain what we think and why we think. But people accept it as being something that's true.

Why can't people understand that "religion" is a concept that doesn't need evidence to believe in. It's something that just is.

I'm not going to argue with you or anything about my reasoning or beliefs. But that's my opinion. Have a good day.


I know you haven't. But others in this thread have. And that is what I find irritating, I have to admit.

And yes, I actually understand perfectly well in that it is just faith and doesn't need evidence. But as I said, what irritates me is the very fact that so many people mistake their faith for evidence and go around pretending and telling others it is evidence.

If anything, your post just confirmed that many religious people don't understand themselves what religion really is.
Original post by Paranoid_Glitch
Because i believe it's not just about me. I want to motivate and inspire as much people as i can to get to know God. No one would want to go to Hell so i want to try my best to convince them of the existence of God, help them overcome their unbelief and have faith in God, trust him and love him and hopefully they can be saved and be relinquished of their sin. "Do not neglect to do good" . :u:


Fair enough.

But I believe in helping people escape the shackles of their weak minds, help them overcome the need to believe in magic in order to live a fulfilling life. Protect the children from such brainwashing, protect humanity from such evil ideologies.
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
Rubbish. People were living good lives long before religion came about, it's pretty sad if you can't live a decent life without an ancient book telling you to.

False, atheists believe in plenty of things, hey just don't believe in God.


Look yeah if you think my point is rubbish, fine, cause i think your whole outlook is rubbish. How the heck do you know anything about people before religion, and i never said you couldn't live a decent life as an atheist. And there you go again 'ancient book telling you to'. You have no idea about what some religions are like, i'm pretty sure you never took the time to read into a religion without the use of the internet. You don't just bloody follow a book, its more about achieving a spiritual connection with god. Something you probably will never comprehend.
Original post by Paranoid_Glitch
I used that quote specifically to give insight on the fact that the Earth and Universe were created from such unique conditions that to believe they exist only because of scientific explanations is absurd. Just because there is a lack of spiritual explanation doesn't mean it is not present.


Well again, the quote that you gave is then re-addressed and S. Hawkins explains why the conditions were reached or could have been reached anyway, despite how unique they seem to be. So it's not as if they happened 'by chance' or by the works of a magical being.
Original post by D3LLI5
Do I deserve to burn in hell for eternity because I don't believe you?
No but because you have sinned. I can't say i have all the answers but from most of the passages i have read from the Bible, i have concluded it has an answer to almost any question you could ask.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Retropattern
Look yeah if you think my point is rubbish, fine, cause i think your whole outlook is rubbish. How the heck do you know anything about people before religion, and i never said you couldn't live a decent life as an atheist. And there you go again 'ancient book telling you to'. You have no idea about what some religions are like, i'm pretty sure you never took the time to read into a religion without the use of the internet. You don't just bloody follow a book, its more about achieving a spiritual connection with god. Something you probably will never comprehend.


I achieved a spiritual connection with my gf the other night. Does that count?
This is such an overdone thread
Original post by inhuman
I know you haven't. But others in this thread have. And that is what I find irritating, I have to admit.

And yes, I actually understand perfectly well in that it is just faith and doesn't need evidence. But as I said, what irritates me is the very fact that so many people mistake their faith for evidence and go around pretending and telling others it is evidence.

If anything, your post just confirmed that many religious people don't understand themselves what religion really is.


Well you now know where "blind faith" comes from!

I think a lot of religious people have their own definition and own connection with religion. My post is not on behalf of anyone other than myself and what I stand for. Religion, to me, is a personal and spiritual connection between oneself and your deity.

Some like to abuse the power of religion has on society and some like to celebrate it with others, whilst others keep it relatively secret.

But, this thread is an age-old debate that will be alive and strong for the next 50 years and more!
As an atheist I assure you there -IS- evidence for the existence of a supernatural theistic deity.
Original post by Paranoid_Glitch
No but because you have sinned. he Bible answers these questions. I can't say i have all them but from most of the passages i have read from the Bible, i have concluded it has an answer to almost any question you could ask.


Catholics sin all the time.

Why should a confession and ten ave marias absolve them?

Not to mention, how did the poster you just quoted sin? All he said was he doesn't believe you. You replied "no, but because you have sinned". How do you know that? Or even more general, suppose a person hasn't sinned, at all, but does not believe in God. Will he go to hell?
Original post by Paranoid_Glitch
Have you seen an evolved human?


There are a number of problems with this comment:

1) Strictly speaking there is no such thing as an "evolved human" because evolution never stops. We aren't the end product, in another 100 billion years, assuming we haven't become extinct, we'll probably look very different than we do now.

2) Secondly, you don't need to directly observe an event to know it happened AS LONG as there is still empirical evidence it happened, that's how history works. By its very nature you cannot observe the evolution of most species because it occurs over such a long time period, but we know it happened for a fact because it is supported by all the fossil, molecular, genetic, physiological and biological evidence. In fact, there are a couple of species whose evolution we HAVE directly observed.

3) Next, you're inadvertently dismantling your own argument. By implying that evolution doesn't occur because it cannot usually be observed directly you are then implying that God doesn't exist because it cannot be directly observed either.

I'm in no way discrediting my argument on probability. I said there is no conspicuous evidence of God but that does not mean he isn't responsible for the existence of the Universe.


But it doesn't mean he is, especially when there is not an iota of evidence for his existence. This argument of yours is essentially meaningless because I can insert any fictional creature and make the exact same statement:

"There is no conspicuous evidence for a giant, invisible, magical duck, but that doesn't mean it isn't responsible for the creation of the universe."

The uniqueness of the Earth and the existence of the Universe creates an especially low probability, which i believe was the result of God's actions. Similar to the discovery of Gravitational Waves, there was no evidence of it but we now know they clearly exist. Personal experience i.e unique to me. I could tell you i felt God's presence but you would never believe that, i could tell you that i had a spiritually related dream but you would never believe that. But what i might have felt or saw was real, and for that reason i believe.


Since when was uniqueness proof of supernatural creation? Besides, it's likely there are other planets out there that closely resemble ours. Even if there aren't, it doesn't prove God exists.

Like i said to begin with it is all about FAITH. People had faith that Gravitational Waves (despite Einstein's doubt) existed and we now know they exist, that is the same with God have FAITH in him and soon enough he will reveal himself to you and everyone.


I'm not sure that's an honest comparison. Natural laws tend to work in predictable ways and so there is not much blind faith involved in postulating the likely existence of a phenomenon that would be a perfectly natural and expected consequence of a confirmed natural law. Anyway, scientists would generally not profess a certainty of its existence until it had been empirically confirmed.

It's fine if you believe in God because of faith, so just be honest that that's your reason. It's much better than pretending there is actual scientific evidence for him and then being unable to provide any if requested.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by The Empire Odyssey
Well you now know where "blind faith" comes from!

I think a lot of religious people have their own definition and own connection with religion. My post is not on behalf of anyone other than myself and what I stand for. Religion, to me, is a personal and spiritual connection between oneself and your deity.

Some like to abuse the power of religion has on society and some like to celebrate it with others, whilst others keep it relatively secret.

But, this thread is an age-old debate that will be alive and strong for the next 50 years and more!


Ok, maybe I should not have quoted you in my reply.
Faith maybe? they'd rather believe in something and pray for their suffering. Like a placebo effect. Just gives them hope.

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