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There is no evidence for God

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Reply 240

Pra99

Original post by Plantagenet Crown

Rituals are indeed extremely old, but they don't need to have an intrinsic link to religion, at least not to one in the recognisable sense. It also does nothing to back up the statement that religion is necessary for people to lead decent lives. How would one who believes that answer the religious rituals in history that we would consider horrific, such as human sacrifice?

I didnt say religion is needed to live a decent life. What I am saying is that early humans had an internal feeling that there was something above them.

Reply 241

Rather_Cynical

Original post by Paranoid_Glitch

Have you seen an evolved human?

I'm in no way discrediting my argument on probability. I said there is no conspicuous evidence of God but that does not mean he isn't responsible for the existence of the Universe. The uniqueness of the Earth and the existence of the Universe creates an especially low probability, which i believe was the result of God's actions. Similar to the discovery of Gravitational Waves, there was no evidence of it but we now know they clearly exist. Personal experience i.e unique to me. I could tell you i felt God's presence but you would never believe that, i could tell you that i had a spiritually related dream but you would never believe that. But what i might have felt or saw was real, and for that reason i believe.

Like i said to begin with it is all about FAITH. People had faith that Gravitational Waves (despite Einstein's doubt) existed and we now know they exist, that is the same with God have FAITH in him and soon enough he will reveal himself to you and everyone.

Tell us the unique properties of the Earth, and we'll discuss it in further detail, right now we'll treat your comments as conjecture.

Gravitational waves don't require faith to exist, it was just very difficult to detect because a) it normally alters the instrument used to measure it, and b) gravity is the weakest of the four fundamentals. It's not the same as religious faith, which is inherently blind and contrary to reason.

If we suppose your God was real, which would be contrary to any kind of critical thought, we'll have a hard time agreeing whether they are good.

Reply 242

Plantagenet Crown

Original post by Pra99

I didnt say religion is needed to live a decent life. What I am saying is that early humans had an internal feeling that there was something above them.

That's not a point neither I nor her were making. And having that feeling does not prove it's real so I'm not sure what that is meant to show.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 243

Paranoid_Glitch

Original post by Plantagenet Crown

I consider murder bad, but I admit that it's subjective. I don't believe there is an objective code etched into the fabric of the universe professing murder to be evil.

Yes. So most of what you could consider bad is what the bible may see as evil. No one is incapable of doing bad, but those who embrace God and then be with him can be free of it.

Reply 244

inhuman

Original post by Paranoid_Glitch

The "No" was in regard to the fact that people do not go to Hell because of not believing in me, but a lack of faith and trust in God, because for that reason we are separated from him and his grace and are therefore not saved . I believe this was the post.
"Do I deserve to burn in hell for eternity because I don't believe you?"

"He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."That is what the bible says.

So you admit it. The Bible says non-believers go to hell.

How nice of you.

Reply 245

Tamuna10

Original post by Retired_Messiah

How have you come to the conclusion that everything has a point if you, a human (I assume), are unable to perceive all of them? What you have there is a belief. A belief is fine, but do not wave it around like it's an indisputable fact.

Perceiving is held by mind, but intuition can help you perceive a lot more than mind or sensory organs can. If you don't have intuition, that doesn't mean that nothing has a point, it just means you can't feel it. And do not tell me what to wave around and what not, I'm speaking of what's logical, not denying anything like some others do. Everything may be possible in this world, that's it. So don't throw in your single opinions as if nothing has a point when you don't have enough might to understand the world yet. No one has, so this topic is only talking about our beliefs and opinions. If you stop others from throwing off their opinions, then you'd better not discuss here at all.

Reply 246

inhuman

Original post by Pra99

I didnt say religion is needed to live a decent life. What I am saying is that early humans had an internal feeling that there was something above them.

Or they just had no idea what they were doing in the world and a ritual gave them some sort of reassurance that all would be well.

Typical theist blindness. "Thank you God" or "miracle" when something unexpectedly good happens, but no "damn you god" every time something bad happens. Instead just "it was his wish, who am i to question his wish".

Confirmation bias is such a *****.

Reply 247

Paranoid_Glitch

Original post by inhuman

So you admit it. The Bible says non-believers go to hell.

How nice of you.

Yes. But not for any malicious reason though. I think that because you might be a non believer that is your perception of it. You would not go to hell because of disbelief but because of sin. Sin is wrong, bad, evil and deserves eternal punishment.

Reply 248

WhereIsTheLove??

Original post by Plantagenet Crown

I consider murder bad, but I admit that it's subjective. I don't believe there is an objective code etched into the fabric of the universe professing murder to be evil.

hmm... I am quite curious about your point of view...

So what do you think if say someone (like a terrorist) is murdering, but wholeheartedly believes that they are doing the right thing (probably due to brainwashing). Are they doing the right thing because they think it is the right thing?

I agree with you, to a certain extent, that morality is subjective and would be curious to see (and yet hope I never do see) a case where a child has been brought up being told that murder is right, to see if they can ever learn it is wrong without being told so...

Interesting bit of philosophy...

Reply 249

Rather_Cynical

Original post by Paranoid_Glitch

How so. Most if not all biblical principles coincide with morals.

If you consider the point of behaving morally and what it achieves, its function could be said to be conducive to the overall stability and health of the society.

An example could be the idea that you shouldn't kill others, which pre-date any kind of religious text and exists in the natural world with many other animal species. Then suppose what happens if we did so anyway, what happens as a result? The population would tend to self-destruct, because it's impossible to pass the gene on when everyone's killing eachother off.

The same could be said of the idea of theft, because intentional depravation of others might benefit an individual but is destructive socially and even moreso collectively because cooperation as a tool no longer works. It therefore can be concluded that moral laws emerge from what's necessary to keep it surviving and thriving through the test of time.

Codifying it became necessary when our societies grew substantially larger, so laws and its enforcement was made.

The rigidity of religious "divine" morality is about the fact that it refuses to budge at logical extremes, where a violation of the commandments does not cause suffering and a strict adherence cause quite the opposite effects. It is not amendable or reasoned, and does not adapt well to advances in technology or philosophy.

Reply 250

Tamuna10

Original post by WhereIsTheLove??

Murder is not right simply because you're taking other people's rights to live. You have no right to do that. If one harms other one's rights, then they are not allowed to do it. If not so, then we do not need to live in societies, but rather live alone and do what we please.

Reply 251

inhuman

Original post by Paranoid_Glitch

Oh! Thank you for clearing that up, that makes it all ok.

Reply 252

Mikaela!

I believe there is evidence that God (Jesus Christ) exists.
And what i find interesting is that humans hold a lot of 'faith'
You have faith that you are breathing in oxygen yet you can't see it?
You believe that there is wind yet you can't necessarily see that?

Truth is you believe with faith that you will breathe in something you can't see to stay alive,
I believe there is a God because of the beautiful world we live in,where did it come from and how did it come about?

Reply 253

Rather_Cynical

Original post by Mikaela!

That's not similar at all. Oxygen has distinct chemical and physical properties, you don't need to believe in something contrary to reason for metabolic processes to work. I don't need to believe in wind for the physical forces of the moving fluid to exert pressures and perform ecological and climate-based roles.

The conviction in religious conjecture has none of that, just some very deluded people - some of whom want to invade the rest of the world.

EDIT - it looks like you believe in God because you're undereducated/underinformed about science. That's not a good reason to believe at all

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 254

Plantagenet Crown

Original post by WhereIsTheLove??

Well I'd see murder as wrong and they'd see it as right, that's the point. Subjective morals cannot make objective moral statements, they must necessary depend on who you're asking.

Reply 255

username1207499

Original post by Paranoid_Glitch

No but because you have sinned. I can't say i have all the answers but from most of the passages i have read from the Bible, i have concluded it has an answer to almost any question you could ask.

So what have I done that warrants me being tortured for eternity?

Reply 256

Plantagenet Crown

Original post by Mikaela!

Both oxygen and wind can be physically and empirically detected, God cannot.

Reply 257

Mikaela!

Original post by Rather_Cynical

Sorry?
Lol i'm not a scientist nor do i need to be one to know that oxygen does not come from nothing. Neither does the vast majority of nature.

Everything comes from something, yes wind and oxygen has properties to prove them to be existent, but where do these properties come from?

Reply 258

WhereIsTheLove??

Original post by Plantagenet Crown

Well I'd see murder as wrong and they'd see it as right, that's the point. Subjective morals cannot make objective moral statements, they must necessary depend on who you're asking.

But if this was true, how could we justify a justice system?
The murderer would be like 'you can't punish me cuz I did the right thing'
yet the judge would be like 'yeah but I think it is wrong. So there!'

Wouldn't this mean that some peoples opinions matter more than others?
Which would be unfair... or at least I think it is...