Why is it ok to ban nudism but not the burkini?

The threat is individual hateful Muslims becoming radicalised through segregation, alienation and discrimination which stem from this ban, and the consequences of this ban, which include the legitimisation of Islamophobic feelings throughout Europe. NOT the collective Muslim community threatening to join ISIS in response to these things.

Again, why should the threat of "individual hateful Muslims" becoming radicalised decide whether government makes policy or not? And how do we know such people would not become radicalised anyway? If you look at the countries of origin of ISIS fighters, many are highly accommodating of even conservative Islamic practices.

Because without the resultant discrimination, its likely that some of these people would not become radicalised. And that means less people dying, which I hope you're in favour of?

So why is "gross" superior to "offensive" in the banning-of-things stakes, when both are entirely subjective?

It implicitly will have included those things (unless you think the people behind the ban do not believe the burkini represents those things?), but okay - it was banned because it offended secularism rather than principles of women's equality. What difference does that make to the argument?

This is probably a dumb question, but if nature intended us to be walking around nude why dont we have thick fur? Isnt it too cold in winter to be walking around nude?

So you think it's sensible to base government policy on the whims of extremists to stop them from being violent, when in all likelihood they would be violent anyway?

Should we have not banned FGM because some extremists consider it a religious requirement and the "resultant discrimination" means it is likely that some of these people would become radicalised?

Oh, it isn't. I just came here to say that the reasons why nudity and burkinis are banned are completely different to each other, and the reasons in your OP are wrong.




Consider this:

I'm a mayor of a town. I ban tax evaders because they do not pay anything back to the community which they live in. I also happen to think that tax evaders are rich middle class men. I did not ban tax evaders, because they are all rich and middle class and male.

One mayor has already said that this is not a blanket ban on religious symbols in public places. So that includes religious symbols from Christianity's history of misogyny, crusades and homophobia, Jewish history's of "the chosen people" syndrome among many other religious symbols and connotations are still A-Ok. How does it make sense to ban a burkini for the reasons of misogyny - but not the hijab, the crucifix, or anything else?

And... how do you offend a principle, or a lack of religion? You can't offend something that isn't another person!



I suppose nature never intended for us to leave Africa. But then as soon as we made hides out of animal fur, we just spread across the globe into the freezing winters of the north

(I like to believe this theory)

Nudism should not be a banned and neither should the burkini.


The one caveat I would add however is that public transport companies should be allowed to ban nude passengers on the grounds of hygiene.

Consider this:

I'm a mayor of a town. I ban tax evaders because they do not pay anything back to the community which they live in. I also happen to think that tax evaders are rich middle class men. I did not ban tax evaders, because they are all rich and middle class and male.

One mayor has already said that this is not a blanket ban on religious symbols in public places. So that includes religious symbols from Christianity's history of misogyny, crusades and homophobia, Jewish history's of "the chosen people" syndrome among many other religious symbols and connotations are still A-Ok. How does it make sense to ban a burkini for the reasons of misogyny - but not the hijab, the crucifix, or anything else?

And... how do you offend a principle, or a lack of religion? You can't offend something that isn't another person!

A sensible response. I'm in favour of little to no state intervention when it comes to fashion and clothing.

What are your thoughts on clothing that are deliberately provocative and have the potential to cause alarm and distress i.e. Nazi uniforms?

Its perfectly sensible not to discriminate against the entirety of a religion because of the actions of a small handful of people who follow it on a different wavelength to everyone else.

I don't appreciate your "OH SO YOU MEAN *inserts blatantly wrong interpretation*", the point is not to cause harm to the Muslim community. The violence that may result from some angry Muslims is a secondary effect, but still a consequence nonetheless.

Point is, nudists can go to the beach for a swim in all of those town, hijabis cannot.

How is this ban discriminating against the "entirety of a religion"? Is it even specifically a requirement in the Qur'an?



It was applying your logic, and showing you the consequences of that logic.

Because the clothing that belongs to an entire religion is banned for some vague misconceptions about it being a 'symbol of oppression'.

Source?

I also don't see your point, because on the flip side towns where nudism is banned, burkinis are permitted.

If it's not in the Qur'an how does it belong to an entire religion? It's merely associated with a religion.

its the cultural clothing worn by many members of the religion, stop trying to argue about how its technically not in the quran, you know exactly what I mean.

Well, perhaps not all of them but Plage de la Batterie is a beach near Cannes and if the French sources I've been reading are anything to go by, nudity on some of the non-nudist beaches is tolerated, depending on the area. French law neither bans nor allows nudity on beaches either, unless the law on that has changed since 2014. The burkini was explicitly banned in certain towns.
http://www.thelocal.fr/galleries/travel/nudity-on-french-beaches-dos-and-donts

And can you name one burkini beach? Would the public accept those?

Every beach is a burkini beach (except a couple in France); no beach is a nudist beach, apart from a few exceptions that are cordoned off.