Guardian praises burkini as a "blend of Islamic values and western lifestyle"

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you need reevaluate your mindset.

dear friend, I think you should also consider to reevaluate your mindset

of course that no one will object to some people wearing Nigerian traditional clothing in most situations, and most people will appreciate the colourfoul diversity of many traditional dresses. However, there are two sorts of problems

- a very specific one : in the present situation, wearing a burkini on the beach of Nice, or Cannes, or some of the Cote d-Azur municipalities (15 in all) which have banned the burkini, strikes me as being particularly insensitive. An uncalled-for act of defiance

-more in general: in many situations, distinctive dress is just, as you say a welcome, colourful addition to diversity. I doubt, however, that this could be claimed for, e.g. the Nazi brownshirts, or the historical blackshirts , blueshirts, redshirts, greenshirts or the greenshorts (mentioned by PG Woodhouse in a Jeeves novel which now escapes me, where a character founded the green shorts, because "all the shirts were already taken")

-there are good reasons why uniforms worn by civilians are, frequently, banned. Uniforms allow persons to be immediately identified on the basis of their in-group. Very useful in war, on a crime scene but also on the football field, etc. Their usefulness in everyday life can be seriously doubted - except for adepts of street scuffles or random discrimination practices

Bottom line ; context is essential. Where hostility among rival groups exists, uniforms are particularly dangerous and risk worsening considerably the situation

best

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 41

mariachi

Original post by I-Hate-Edexcel

There is'nt anything wrong. If it was about a Christian Man wearing a Cassock it wouldn't be a debate on here i'm sure. But people feel the need to find everything wrong in a religion that isn't their own. So many more issues like Hunger, Homelessness and Trafficking but no, people want to find the things that they feel will put down a religion. :colonhash:

everyone who has been following news knows the terms of the debate

in Western Europe, many, many citizens feel that Muslims are on their way to impose their culture and religion via demography and immigration. The existence of this opinion is a fact of life that cannot be denied, whatever we may think about its accuracy and justification.

So, the last thing Muslims should do, is to try and justify this assumption by actually making Islam more visible than it was in the past. Creating sharia-complying enclaves (as some idiots in the UK claimed to do), asking for the adhan (call to prayer) being aired, encouraging women to wear burqas, showing up on the Nice beach in burkinis

it is in no one's interest to develop the so-called "clash of civilizations" to new heights : this will only encourage jihadis and European right-wing fanatics to slug it out

in fact, the extremists' only hope for carrying the day in their respective communities is if clashes can be provoked, so that communities will (hopefully) coagulate around them

best

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 42

mariachi

Original post by RobML

state your reasoning?

you could check some of my posts, e.g. this one http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showpost.php?p=67262062&postcount=33

best

Reply 43

Dodgypirate

They'll be saying the same thing about Halal meat soon.

What is happening to this world...

Reply 44

Siberiaan

It's basically a full swimsuit , people srsly need to get a life

Reply 45

scrotgrot

The Guardian is absolutely right, as usual. Covering the body is a Muslim cultural practice. Going to the beach is a Western one. Therefore these people are well integrated. The problem for the French political culture is that they are not assimilated. France demands assimilation rather that mere integration and that is why it has so much ethnic strife, not just with Muslims but with all minorities.

Reply 46

Colouredsmurf

People that oppose the burkini think they are stopping oppression yet they are the biggest oppressors by stopping muslim women taking part in swimming in the only way that they feel comfortable to do so , further hindering them from being part of society.

Reply 47

abc:)

Yeaaaah I've got really mixed feelings on this. I don't agree with some Muslim women when they argue that a burqa is liberating or even a feminist statement... I do find them oppressive and sexist and unnecessary.

On the other hand I obviously understand that that doesn't give me the right to tell anyone not to wear it and I thought the ban is/was an absolute outrage.

I guess I can see the argument that it allows Muslim women to take part in day-to-day Western culture without compromising their own culture or beliefs.

Reply 48

mariachi

Original post by scrotgrot

France demands assimilation rather that mere integration and that is why it has so much ethnic strife, not just with Muslims but with all minorities.

Maghreb Arabs and Corsicans
that's about it

Poles, Russians, Spaniards, Portuguese, Italians, Jews, Lebanese etc have no problems at all

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 49

Josb

Original post by scrotgrot

The Guardian is absolutely right, as usual. Covering the body is a Muslim cultural practice.

Covering the *female* body is a Muslim cultural practice.

Original post by scrotgrot

Going to the beach is a Western one. Therefore these people are well integrated. The problem for the French political culture is that they are not assimilated. France demands assimilation rather that mere integration and that is why it has so much ethnic strife, not just with Muslims but with all minorities.

No, the millions of immigrants from Spain, Italy, Portugal, Poland, Russia, China and Vietnam that came to France have no major assimilation problem.

Last week there was a demonstration by Parisian Chinese who demanded protection against North-African gangs that specifically target them (they are said to have cash on them):

Even in far right demonstrations you can't see so many French flags.

Reply 50

Josb

Original post by mariachi

Maghreb Arabs and Corsicans
that's about it

Poles, Russians, Spaniards, Portuguese, Italians, Jews, Lebanese etc have no problems at all

Ninja'd

Reply 51

Chief Wiggum

lol the Guardian is a ridiculous newspaper.

Reply 52

mariachi

Original post by Colouredsmurf

ask yourself : why has this problem surfaced now ? did Muslim women in the past not feel the need to swim ? or perhaps they did, but they did not feel the need to cover up in this way ?

Reply 53

1010marina

Original post by Dodgypirate

They'll be saying the same thing about Halal meat soon.

What is happening to this world...

Hopefully, seeing as it is less humane.

Reply 54

KimKallstrom

Ridiculous policy. People criticise some other countries for oppression and a lack of personal choices. Places like France are supposed to be better than them. However........

Original post by scrotgrot

The Guardian is absolutely right, as usual.

Original post by scrotgrot

Covering the female body is a Muslim cultural practice.

FIFY

Original post by scrotgrot

it has so much ethnic strife, not just with Muslims but with all minorities

Nah, you ain't getting away with that

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 55

Pinkberry_y

The only culture in the Burkini is Islam, there is not western involvement in this.
If these ladies are so abhorred by being found attractive by men and being around men then why are they going around beaches full of half naked men anyway?
Just 2 nights ago I was watching BBC news and they interviewed a woman in France who was at the beach WITHOUT any scarf or covered up clothing on (was wearing a t-shirt), they filmed her being told the Burkini ban was being lifted and she whooped for joy and said she was going to come back tomorrow with her Burkini on because she was made to take it off yesterday at the beach. Sorry but if you're that devout to your religion surely you'd prioritise your religion and stay at home if it meant you couldn't cover up as opposed to coming to the beach anyway and not wearing it, where men can see you.
This just tells me their hearts aren't even really in wearing that thing, it's become one of those things where they're either forced to wear it by their families or as some kind of statement/protest against the west

Reply 56

mariachi

Original post by Pinkberry_y

.
This just tells me their hearts aren't even really in wearing that thing, it's become one of those things where they're either forced to wear it by their families or as some kind of statement/protest against the west

the more media attention this is getting, the more it becomes a statement/protest against the West

it's nice to feel defiant and important ...

Reply 57

teenhorrorstory

Original post by Pinkberry_y

You think the same family who forced her to wear the burkini would be fine with her going out without a hijab and wearing a t-shirt on the beach? Clearly it wasn't forced.

I love how you know burkini wearers so well that you were able to find out the 2 reasons as to why they wear it!

Reply 58

Pinkberry_y

The lady in question I woukdn't say is being forced, I would say she's using the Burkini as some political statement if she can whip it off so easily and go to the beach the next day in a t-shirt when the previous day she was so devout to her religion that she wouldn't show an ounce of flesh to a man who wasn't her husband

Original post by teenhorrorstory

Reply 59

I-Hate-Edexcel

Original post by Pinkberry_y

*Sigh* There are more Muslims in the world than just one you know. You really cant be speaking about the 2nd biggest religion and using 1 person to back up your stories. Give an account of all the Muslim women in the world then come with your opinions. I can account for one Muslim women in my Neighbourhood who loves the burkini. So therefore the whole Muslim Women population loves the Burkini according to your logic. Lots of people have problems within their Religions such as some Sikhs dont like the turban, Need to stop with your hate seriously.