The Liverpool FC Thread XIV

Good point, but Arsenal have faced you lot and Leicester already this season. So really both teams have had as good a start to the season as each other.7

Still think Arsenal should get 4th. You lot have been playing good attacking football but your defence is so trash and you've done very little to stop that. Milner at LB is a start but you can't be starting Henderson with Wijnaldum and Lallana and expect to be getting clean sheets. I think if Klopp can get the defence working well then you guys will be pretty hard to stop, potentially end up in the title picture.

We have had harder fixtures and haven't played a single home game. Not sure why you are comparing us to United and Chelsea when they are going for the title and we are just aiming for a top 4 finish. We are level with Arsenal and Leicester and 1 point away from Spurs so we are okay at the moment. Besides look at how City started last season and ended up scraping a 4th place finish, we still have a long way to go yet and European football to come.

Defence wasn't the problem today as we kept Spurs at bay most of the time, Matip was excellent I thought. We are not set up for nicking 1-0 wins so we have to be scoring second goals but we were either unlucky or not ruthless enough. The important thing is keeping up with that kind of performance against the smaller sides and not turning up like we did against Burnley, if we do that then we will pick up more wins along the way.

I think the worst thing about the game today is how we should've won it at the end.

Henderson played an awful ball through to Firmino, who otherwise would've been through on goal to get the winner.

Those errors tho

Pleasing aspects from today, for me, were Henderson's improvement and Mane's brilliance. He continues to really impress me, showing pace, invention and a willingness to put his body on the line. He is very selfless, in a similar way to Firmino, and I love seeing them in tandem.

We were the better side today - but Spurs are a good side. We should have been 2-0 up and put the game to bed, but we didn't, so we must now regroup and focus on Leicester at home. You can argue that Lallana was on-side (I don't think he was, personally) and Matip should have had a penalty, but Coutinho/Matip should both have scored in my view and the game should have been out of sight.

Going forward, our high energy and high press really excites me - and the players looked fully committed today, rather than reverting to the pot shots of last week. Burnley was just an anomaly, I'm pretty sure, and there were signs of progress today: Matip's debut, Milner's leadership (he's still getting to grips with the left-back role, though, clearly) and Henderson/Mane as aforementioned.

Both sides will be content with a point.

^Building on the above, I think the difference is just luck.

Today was one of those games where we could've won 3-0 if things had gone for us, and nobody would've said it wasn't deserved.
If we play like we have been playing, we'll eventually get what we deserve.

We aren't competing with United/Chelsea/City this season so let's just forget about them for a second. Our main rivals for 4th place are Arsenal and Spurs.

Only 3 games are gone and we're level with Arsenal and 1 point behind Spurs after playing them both a away. That's a very good return when you factor in the difficulty of those fixtures and the fact that we didn't lose to either rival.

One thing which really annoys me though - it's always some random ****er who scores for the opposition in games like this against us. Who the **** is Danny Rose. I'd be less annoyed if it was a quality player who scored.

Good point, but Arsenal have faced you lot and Leicester already this season. So really both teams have had as good a start to the season as each other.

Still think Arsenal should get 4th. You lot have been playing good attacking football but your defence is so trash and you've done very little to stop that. Milner at LB is a start but you can't be starting Henderson with Wijnaldum and Lallana and expect to be getting clean sheets. I think if Klopp can get the defence working well then you guys will be pretty hard to stop, potentially end up in the title picture.

A player who would stroll into your first 11

What's the point in being a fan if you're not looking to win the title? Especially where ****ing Leicester won the title last season. The likes of Man Utd/Chelsea will be more disappointed if they were to finish just 4th whereas we'd be happy - so while the height of our ambition should be the same, I'd agree that we should have lower expectations at the bottom end.



Blaming Henderson? Look at bloody Coutinho who missed a sitter after Firmino put it on a plate for him. Had another good chance too.



You make your own luck and its so obvious we need to improve our defending.



Nah we should be disappointed imo. We were by far the better side. We just don't have an ability to kill a game or control it. Look at Arsenal where at 4-1 up which should've been out of sight and managed Arsenal - instead we go and concede 2 goals.

We always look like we might concede a goal. Milner did alright at LB but he still made a big mistake for their goal. Had it been Moreno, they would've been ****ging him off for his lack of defensive nous and chasing the ball.



Not really.. I'd say we're just at par at best and not fallen behind those two. The others have played easier games so it will even out for us eventually. If we carry on playing like we are, we're going to concede an even higher total than 50 goals this season..

Something needs to be managed better.

I thought Origi was the wrong sub yesterday. He looked well off the pace and didn't seem to be able to run the channels. You have to wonder the difference bringing on a midfield player might have had instead? Should we have tried to control it as a 1-0 with 20 mins left?

One thing which really annoys me though - it's always some random ****er who scores for the opposition in games like this against us. Who the **** is Danny Rose. I'd be less annoyed if it was a quality player who scored.

Thought Danny Rose was Spurs' best player personally. Him and Firmino were head and shoulders above everyone else on the pitch. He deserved that goal.
*


The tandem of Henderson/Wijnaldum is so vulnerable, which is why I was surprised we didn't deploy Stewart from the start yesterday. Lucas, too, is a backup option and more defensively minded than Henderson/Wijnaldum, but he'd played under-23s in the week.

Klopp has said he's happy with his central midfield options - so I imagine, if we need a shield/protection in front of the back four, we can expect Stewart to play this season.*

Danny Rose was getting raped by Mane for most of the first half so how was he the best player for Spurs?

I'd assume that the shield is going to be Emre Can or Stewart. Most likely Can. I think your team is capable of performing as well or better than the whole league(would say that you have been playing the best offensively so far, created the most chances and key pass opportunities) I think Everton are a dark horse for top 4 as well. Koeman's an accomplished manager and they've signed some good players while retaining their best player in Lukaku. Stones going for such a high fee has helped them too.

Can isn't a DM or even tactically great at sitting so I don't know why people think he's going to come in and solve all our problems.

We don't have the right balance between attack and defence yet. Klopp is obviously willing to sacrifice some control to have greater attacking threat but we don't have the defence or midfield for that yet imo..

Can isn't a DM or even tactically great at sitting so I don't know why people think he's going to come in and solve all our problems.

We don't have the right balance between attack and defence yet. Klopp is obviously willing to sacrifice some control to have greater attacking threat but we don't have the defence or midfield for that yet imo..

My boy Raheem, told you all that he is a top player when everyone was mocking him at the Euros but everyone was saying I was mad for having faith in him. How does humble pie taste?

Can isn't a DM or even tactically great at sitting so I don't know why people think he's going to come in and solve all our problems.

We don't have the right balance between attack and defence yet. Klopp is obviously willing to sacrifice some control to have greater attacking threat but we don't have the defence or midfield for that yet imo..

So why are you just posting this in the LFC thread then when I'm pretty sure he got a lot more abuse by non LFC fans on TSR.

Because people on this thread were saying how he gets carried by Silva and KDB. Quite evidently, as today shows, that is a load of poo poo. I said it myself, Sterling has a fantastic ability, he's not a winger per se because he can glide past people when he is through the centre and I believe we will see more and more of that. It's the mark of an exceptional talent and I don't even like City or Liverpool. If Pogba did the same things the press (i.e. Man Utd TV) would have a massive *** on the tv.

Tbh the Liverpool fans on this site really rate Sterling.

I think Sterling is more willing to take on his man now rather than just run into space. Guardiola's style tends to have his wingers beating people 1 vs 1, they start pretty wide while the fullbacks are pretty inward. Sterling clearly has the ability to beat his man and carry the ball in his locker so really if he improves his end product(finishing mainly as his passing's not bad at all) then you have a beast of a player. Works very hard off the ball too.

SUG said that he could see Guardiola working with Sterling and make him into a beast and I think you're starting to see that already.

It's all about being realistic mate. Of course we want to win the title but you have to tailor your expectations to realism. Leicester was a once in a blue moon thing and it won't happen every season. We're just looking for the positives from a potentially disappointing 4 points considering the performances we've produced should've yielded 6.

I'm not saying Henderson had a poor game in general, just that his bad pass meant we spurned a game winning opportunity...

Rose is a quality player tbh mate and he's one of the best LBs in the league. The full backs at Spurs are both absolute quality - they run up and down the line all day long and always produce offensively and defensively.

We're only 3 games in guys, calm down.

Danny Rose was getting raped by Mane for most of the first half so how was he the best player for Spurs?

I'd assume that the shield is going to be Emre Can or Stewart. Most likely Can. I think your team is capable of performing as well or better than the whole league(would say that you have been playing the best offensively so far, created the most chances and key pass opportunities) I think Everton are a dark horse for top 4 as well. Koeman's an accomplished manager and they've signed some good players while retaining their best player in Lukaku. Stones going for such a high fee has helped them too.

Is it possible for you to be just a tiny bit less pessimistic please?

We played good football vs Arsenal and good football vs Spurs. Burnley was an anomaly - we're one of the best attacking threats in the league.
Sure we have defensive issues but we coped against Spurs fairly well, not to mention we have Karius to come back who will hopefully challenge Mignolet in goal.

Because Can in midfield is still defensively better than what we have at the moment (Lucas doesn't have the mobility anymore and Stewart is a squad player at best), he has generally played deeper last season but in a midfield 2 where we don't have the personnel for it, it was always going to be a struggle but in a midfield 3 he'll do better.

Our current midfield did well to keep Spurs at bay for most of the game, they had very few chances so I'm pretty confident that Can coming in when fit will make us a bit more solid. The issue was once the legs started to go, Spurs grew into the game and eventually lead to the goal being conceded, this is where Klopp should of brought on fresh legs in midfield but for some reason he tends to bring in a striker. The goal conceded was the fault of our fullbacks anyway (generally the goals conceded so far have been individual errors from the back 4) so not sure why our midfield is getting criticised for todays game when they actually did okay.

Your attack and defence are more heavily connected than many sides though due to the way you press. The aggressive high press and the rapid transition associated is both an attacking an defensive feature, so its harder to back off in the same way. Pressing either more or less, can be both more defensive and less defensive depending how you look at it.

I said before you ability to conceded from very little attacking threat is quite worrying. I think that is mainly due to pressing failures. Meaning similar to LVG's United, the chances you concede while being few, tend to be more dramatic visually.

I think Can will be a bit benefit for you guys as he's the best at intelligently applying Klopp's pressing style by some distance. Discipline and intelligence in applying the press are key elements of ensuring that you spring the trap at the right time. If you press to soon and aggressively not only do you open up counters, but you close space and limit passing options upon regain. If you press to late you're risking a poor press and negate the point. Can is not only intelligent he has a far better play making range, making the verticality involved in a swift build up post regain not only more effective but less risky. Neither Henderson or Milner are capable of doing both those things, you have to make a trade, in the choice of Henderson at the base rather than Milner Klopp is already making a defensive decision. Both of those trades come with defensive consequences though. Henderson's lesser passing range and ability to pass under pressure means opposition are less at risk from vertical passes, which is an attacking deficit. However you've also got the issue without that not only is committing bodies forward more risky and less effective you have to load responsibilities to deeper or wider players which has, and has had, defensive cost. So yeah, Can's benefit theoretically two fold pretty much and allows you to improve the balance without sacrifice via overall system improvement rather than adjustment.

We have agreed a fee with Lazio for Luis Alberto. £6m - £4.3 up front + £1.7m in add-ons.