Should university be free
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Original post by #ChaosKass
To be honest I think all 18 year olds should have to enrol in a year of compulsory unpaid military service anyway.
Original post by #ChaosKass
Absolutely not - higher education is not a human right. You want it, you pay for it.
In fact I'd go as far as to say that the current fees are not enough, though the proposed tiered system looks somewhat promising. Ideally the student loan scheme would be scrapped entirely and fees would have to be paid upfront - teach all those workshy 18 year olds that you can't have everything handed to you on a plate.
In fact I'd go as far as to say that the current fees are not enough, though the proposed tiered system looks somewhat promising. Ideally the student loan scheme would be scrapped entirely and fees would have to be paid upfront - teach all those workshy 18 year olds that you can't have everything handed to you on a plate.
Honestly are you mad. First one is violation of my civil and personal freedoms, **** off, second is ********. What about poor kids? All your proposals will do is take us back to when only a wealthy oligarchic group of people went to uni. People like you is why I left UKIP
Original post by maker
but clever people can.
rektttttt
Original post by niteninja1
Should university be free
Of course. It should be purely grade based, and funded by the government, University research ;abs are where a lot of scientific developments are made, which can help improve human life and knowledge. The least the government should do is fund it.
the military does pay for people to do specific degrees at specific universities at the moment
personally I think we should have a different system but not a free one... I wouldn't support different fees for different unis as I think then the more expensive unis become even more elitist and social mobility suffers but I would support there being a lot more in the way of scholarships and bursaries - plenty of students in the US pay very little for their education because they are extremely clever or they get free accommodation in return for warden work in the evening - there should be more scholarships available to potential students coming from low income backgrounds who are academically successful, perhaps subject specific so they encourage useful skills (i.e. STEM)
the problem at the moment is everyone is equal and we can't afford to pay for everyone who wants to go to uni to go right now... if someone wants to go study media at some *****y ex poly then they can pay for that themselves but we should be giving more support and encouragement to people who will be successful and contribute to the country
personally I think we should have a different system but not a free one... I wouldn't support different fees for different unis as I think then the more expensive unis become even more elitist and social mobility suffers but I would support there being a lot more in the way of scholarships and bursaries - plenty of students in the US pay very little for their education because they are extremely clever or they get free accommodation in return for warden work in the evening - there should be more scholarships available to potential students coming from low income backgrounds who are academically successful, perhaps subject specific so they encourage useful skills (i.e. STEM)
the problem at the moment is everyone is equal and we can't afford to pay for everyone who wants to go to uni to go right now... if someone wants to go study media at some *****y ex poly then they can pay for that themselves but we should be giving more support and encouragement to people who will be successful and contribute to the country
no as then everyone has it and it stands for nothing and won't make you anymore or less employable than the next man
No, not free, but I'd definitely change the system if I could.
In Russia, they use marks instead of grades when you apply to uni (kids apply after they get their results), and they rate students based on the overall number of marks they got in their exams. The top students (maybe top 10/20 for each course, not sure) get free education, free accommodation if they're from another city, and a small scholarship kind of thing every month. So theoretically if you did relatively well but you don't have the money to go to a top uni, you could go to a slightly worse uni for free, if that's what you want. I think that's really fair.
I also think that different courses at different unis should have different prices. I don't think it's fair that everybody has to pay 9000 pounds a year, no matter what they do.
In Russia, they use marks instead of grades when you apply to uni (kids apply after they get their results), and they rate students based on the overall number of marks they got in their exams. The top students (maybe top 10/20 for each course, not sure) get free education, free accommodation if they're from another city, and a small scholarship kind of thing every month. So theoretically if you did relatively well but you don't have the money to go to a top uni, you could go to a slightly worse uni for free, if that's what you want. I think that's really fair.
I also think that different courses at different unis should have different prices. I don't think it's fair that everybody has to pay 9000 pounds a year, no matter what they do.
Make it cheaper.
Original post by #ChaosKass
Absolutely not - higher education is not a human right. You want it, you pay for it.
In fact I'd go as far as to say that the current fees are not enough, though the proposed tiered system looks somewhat promising. Ideally the student loan scheme would be scrapped entirely and fees would have to be paid upfront - teach all those workshy 18 year olds that you can't have everything handed to you on a plate.
In fact I'd go as far as to say that the current fees are not enough, though the proposed tiered system looks somewhat promising. Ideally the student loan scheme would be scrapped entirely and fees would have to be paid upfront - teach all those workshy 18 year olds that you can't have everything handed to you on a plate.
Do you know how hard it is to sort everything out fee wise and having the thought of finance ningling on the back of your brain my family are poor and i want to go to uni to better my chances in life. for people that are poor and have started of in lives like me such as being in care and then living with a single parent it is very hard to make the choice knowing the costs of university and i believe that university fees are part of the reason that societies are divided, and how can the government expect people for low class families that work hard for there money develope on their lives the government have put the loans in place to make it more achievable for more people to go to university, i will spend 4yrs at university maybe 5 that totals to around £70,000 to pay that would be far to much for a 19yr old to pay and i had a job and saved. however i think your also forgetting that even if you had been working from the age of 16 at £3.40 an hr to progress on £5.30 an hour you would not have enough to afford university. infact you would probably earn around £9000 if you saved every penny. infact it would probably be less as to get into university you have to have achieved a-levels and to get them you have 2 have full time education at sixthform meaning you can only have a part-time job. the government have made it more accessible for people but it is still a very big decision and has caused many arguments between me and my family and if none of us workshy eighteen year olds could afford it either, i am not workshy i had a job till i was made redundant the business closed down and i was in full time education. your post was insulting to many people that work hard because they have to help support their families and nothing just gets handed to me thank you very much. so yes uni should be free in my eyes.
It should not be universally free. There should be grants for those who perform well at A level and GCSE.
If someone gets A*A*A* at A level then they most likely should go to university (they clearly have academic potential). If they cannot afford to go then society loses out not just the individual.
On the other side, if lazy saintclaire wants to go do a degree in gender studies at east london met after getting CDD at A level then they should have to pay for it because that's a waste of everyone's time and money.
If someone gets A*A*A* at A level then they most likely should go to university (they clearly have academic potential). If they cannot afford to go then society loses out not just the individual.
On the other side, if lazy saintclaire wants to go do a degree in gender studies at east london met after getting CDD at A level then they should have to pay for it because that's a waste of everyone's time and money.
Original post by Marked Target
It should not be universally free. There should be grants for those who perform well at A level and GCSE.
If someone gets A*A*A* at A level then they most likely should go to university (they clearly have academic potential). If they cannot afford to go then society loses out not just the individual.
On the other side, if lazy saintclaire wants to go do a degree in gender studies at east london met after getting CDD at A level then they should have to pay for it because that's a waste of everyone's time and money.
If someone gets A*A*A* at A level then they most likely should go to university (they clearly have academic potential). If they cannot afford to go then society loses out not just the individual.
On the other side, if lazy saintclaire wants to go do a degree in gender studies at east london met after getting CDD at A level then they should have to pay for it because that's a waste of everyone's time and money.
Potential does not guarantee that:-
a) they will also succeed at Uni;
b) they will take and get a good degree in a subject that the taxpayer will benefit from.
Society will not automatically benefit from someone getting a degree. A glut of degrees, even first and 2.1s does not guarantee that the graduate will get a good or even ANY job to pay the taxpayer back.
That said, and just to show that I can see a flip side, good labour market planning with the involvement and support of employers will help ensure that a higher number of appropriate degrees are offered. If it is in the public's benefit to support SOME degrees* then part of the tuition fee can potentially be waived after qualification and securing employment. That at least creates some incentive for the student to apply themself and the taxpayer to pick up some of the tab.
* e.g. medicine/healthcare
The bottom line though is that if you want it and only you benefit from it then you should pay for it. Simples innit
Original post by viffer
Potential does not guarantee that:-
a) they will also succeed at Uni;
b) they will take and get a good degree in a subject that the taxpayer will benefit from.
Society will not automatically benefit from someone getting a degree. A glut of degrees, even first and 2.1s does not guarantee that the graduate will get a good or even ANY job to pay the taxpayer back.
That said, and just to show that I can see a flip side, good labour market planning with the involvement and support of employers will help ensure that a higher number of appropriate degrees are offered. If it is in the public's benefit to support SOME degrees* then part of the tuition fee can potentially be waived after qualification and securing employment. That at least creates some incentive for the student to apply themself and the taxpayer to pick up some of the tab.
* e.g. medicine/healthcare
The bottom line though is that if you want it and only you benefit from it then you should pay for it. Simples innit
a) they will also succeed at Uni;
b) they will take and get a good degree in a subject that the taxpayer will benefit from.
Society will not automatically benefit from someone getting a degree. A glut of degrees, even first and 2.1s does not guarantee that the graduate will get a good or even ANY job to pay the taxpayer back.
That said, and just to show that I can see a flip side, good labour market planning with the involvement and support of employers will help ensure that a higher number of appropriate degrees are offered. If it is in the public's benefit to support SOME degrees* then part of the tuition fee can potentially be waived after qualification and securing employment. That at least creates some incentive for the student to apply themself and the taxpayer to pick up some of the tab.
* e.g. medicine/healthcare
The bottom line though is that if you want it and only you benefit from it then you should pay for it. Simples innit
It doesn't guarantee that but imo (and this happens at a lot of places) if they are **** in their first year kick them out.
The rewards from people doing degrees can be very abstract. Do maths researchers really help society in any way? Its very difficult to say. People thought number theory was completely pointless and then computers were invented and parts of it have become invaluable to everyday life.
Does a historian do anything to better society or is it just a hobby? Its very debatable. Directly, no they don't do anything to help the average Joe on the street but I'd argue the world would be a worse place without them.
I strongly feel though that if someone illustrates academic potential then for that to be potentially squandered because they come from an impoverished background is terrible. (In the UK you also have the right to an education, whether or not this includes higher education is apparently up for debate. Gating education behind a paywall goes against this imo.)
I should say, I do think far too many people go to university atm. It isn't something for everyone. I don't know why or when but becoming a skilled tradesman is looked down upon for some reason now when it really shouldn't be.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by #ChaosKass
Absolutely not - higher education is not a human right. You want it, you pay for it.
In fact I'd go as far as to say that the current fees are not enough, though the proposed tiered system looks somewhat promising. Ideally the student loan scheme would be scrapped entirely and fees would have to be paid upfront - teach all those workshy 18 year olds that you can't have everything handed to you on a plate.
In fact I'd go as far as to say that the current fees are not enough, though the proposed tiered system looks somewhat promising. Ideally the student loan scheme would be scrapped entirely and fees would have to be paid upfront - teach all those workshy 18 year olds that you can't have everything handed to you on a plate.
honestly looking at your profile and seeing that you're member of the 'Donald Trump Fan Club' and a UKIP supporter tells me all I need to know about the intelligence with which you formed these viewpoints. Though you're idea that 'workshy 18 year olds' somehow have the funds to pay 30 grand of Uni fees did make me laugh. Not a very socially mobile, pro working class agenda that you seem to be promoting lol. Gotta love UKIP supporters.
Not Free... It would be too much of a cost to the taxpayer, either current or cheaper.
To the poster saying it should be paid upfront... Whilst my family might be willing and able to sacrifice for that, 1. It is my choice to want to go to university, and I am independent so they should not be given responsibility with the fees, and hence why the loans agreements and structures are in place.
2.It is difficult to get the required amount doing part time work at 16.
3. I'm all for equality and therefore those who are skilled or have great potential but cannot afford tuition fees due to their circumstances, which I must add through no fault themselves should not take the consequences, and hence should be able to attend university to increase our skill pool and global competitiveness.
One thing I do think we should change is the selection criteria, as I think in some cases, they are too loose and accept anyone... Also some courses... at least limit the numbers as a degree in Hairdressing, ain't as good as something more traditional or rigour (unless you're a hairdresser, but there's still better routes to doing hairdressing)
To the poster saying it should be paid upfront... Whilst my family might be willing and able to sacrifice for that, 1. It is my choice to want to go to university, and I am independent so they should not be given responsibility with the fees, and hence why the loans agreements and structures are in place.
2.It is difficult to get the required amount doing part time work at 16.
3. I'm all for equality and therefore those who are skilled or have great potential but cannot afford tuition fees due to their circumstances, which I must add through no fault themselves should not take the consequences, and hence should be able to attend university to increase our skill pool and global competitiveness.
One thing I do think we should change is the selection criteria, as I think in some cases, they are too loose and accept anyone... Also some courses... at least limit the numbers as a degree in Hairdressing, ain't as good as something more traditional or rigour (unless you're a hairdresser, but there's still better routes to doing hairdressing)
Sorry, but NOTHING in this life is "free" - particularly if the government provides it. A 19 inch colour telly here is ~$130 or about 80 quid. Tesco gets about $780 for one, last i checked. What's the diff?? All of the taxes you have to pay to get "free" stuff. The money has to come from somewhere, and last i checked, it has to come from the taxpayers. That's us folks!! Filtering the money through the "government" wastes about half of it. When 'student loan' programs came on line a few years ago, all the unis around here showed a dramatic jump in tuition charges. Why? Because they could get it!! I worked my way through undergraduate school. I worked at the uni as a lab assistant, and doing other things. During vaccies and between term breaks, i worked as an electronic technician. When i graduated, i didn't have anything - other than a rusty 14 yr old car i went through high school with, but i didn't own anyone anything either. Today, with the widespread "student loan pgm", tuition charges are much higher, and were i graduating today, i'd probably have substantial debt too. If the 'government' had 'provided' "free" tuition, i'm sure my taxes would be much much higher, so they could get their money back - as well as the 'administrative costs' of administering the loan pgm. Somehow, i'd rather pay the lesser amount. Cheers.
I reckon it should be free. My family lives on Benefits (Dad was disabled while working for the NHS trying to be a Nurse, unaware how but he broke his back and has sciatica and that sort of stuff; he's now mentally depressed and a drug addict too) and we can't afford food or anything like that too well. I cut back on eating well just so that I can visit my overseas love of my life :/
People who say it shouldn't be free or should be free don't look at the big picture where some people are more able to go to it than others; a rich person might argue it should not be free, they can afford to go and have more opportunities regarding University. Someone like me would love it to be free because then they can focus on their studies more and save up money to actually afford something else. A fellow above argued that I could use money saved up part time to pay for University: I can't. I'd use it for food, for actual living expenses. It sickens me to see people argue that people can work part time jobs and save up for University, or that they will get life experience by saving up themselves; I for one do not want to spend the better part of my life working odd jobs just to make due.
People who say it shouldn't be free or should be free don't look at the big picture where some people are more able to go to it than others; a rich person might argue it should not be free, they can afford to go and have more opportunities regarding University. Someone like me would love it to be free because then they can focus on their studies more and save up money to actually afford something else. A fellow above argued that I could use money saved up part time to pay for University: I can't. I'd use it for food, for actual living expenses. It sickens me to see people argue that people can work part time jobs and save up for University, or that they will get life experience by saving up themselves; I for one do not want to spend the better part of my life working odd jobs just to make due.
I voted yes. I wish it could be free and in a perfect world maybe Uni wouldn't exist at all. But this is real life. Universities need money to keep themselves running from lab equipment to teaching salaries. However, I do agree the cost is too high and with tuition fees going up and maintenance loans possibly going down, it feels like I'm going to have to be living for the sake of paying off loans, aka tensely. So to answer the question, should it be free, no. Did I wish it was free? Hell yeah.
University HAS to be free. Think of the poor students who can't afford university. Sickening.I hope when Labour gets into power, they make this happen.
I don't believe it should be free I believe it should be a
Graduate tax of 10% for ever as opposed to a 30year loan at 9%.
To say pay upfront is ridiculous
.
Graduate tax of 10% for ever as opposed to a 30year loan at 9%.
To say pay upfront is ridiculous
.
Original post by Quiet Benin
University HAS to be free. Think of the poor students who can't afford university. Sickening.I hope when Labour gets into power, they make this happen.
Why can't poorer students afford it the poorer you are the more loan you get
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