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Paris restaurant refuses to serve Muslim women

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Original post by Good bloke
Not within Islam.

Yes, not within Islam. So who is discriminated?
Original post by Inzamam99

I just believe in a free, secular society where people can practise their beliefs without being discriminated against.


So do I. I draw the line at indoctrinating children into irrational beliefs though. I'm happy that adults can be indoctrinated though, as they are capable of making an informed choice.
Original post by admonit
Yes, not within Islam. So who is discriminated?


What you have said is confusing. Are you defending Islam's stance in not allowing women to marry non-Moslems?
Original post by Good bloke
Hardly. It is child protection. The indoctrination of minors into beliefs that have no rational basis is a flagrant abuse. If a parent wishes to have their child indoctrinated they should wait until the child is old enough to understand what is being peddled to them, and to make their own decisiosn about whether to believe it. A young child can be made to believe pretty well anything.

As Aristotle said: "Give me a boy until the age of seven and I will give you the man".


Forcibly taking away the children of anyone religious is a really awesome solution- I commend your intelligence and use of logic.

The primary source of radicalisation and anti-secularism in the Muslim world is the Western backing of vicious secular dictatorships. Start taking their kids away from them and persecuting them like cattle and see what happens.
Original post by Good bloke
Well, perhaps you could tell me the rational basis to believing that Mohammed flew across the Arabian desert, or that Jesus was resurrected? Or that men should earn the money and leave it to their sons primarily? Or that the value of a woman's testimony is lower than that of a man?


Perhaps you could tell me the rational basis to believing that Santa Claus flies around on Christmas, delivering presents? Or that men should should lead and initiate romantic interactions? Or that girls should cover their breasts?


How would you feel if South Americans started indoctrinating their children into the ancient Meso-American religions from birth, and brought up a generation of people wanting to perform human sacrifice?


Hysterical. Try again when children learn about and desire to perform human sacrifices by the masses here instead of the usual stories of tolerance and love most children hear within their respective religious frameworks.
(edited 7 years ago)
Reply 365
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QE2
20
Original post by Dima-Blackburn
Absurd, asinine and plainly offensive;
You will need to explain why, because your next paragraph does not.

any credibility you may have had as a reasonable debater has been obliterated with your continuous comparisons between white-supremacists/neo-Nazis and Muslims who publicly identify as such (in this case, Hijabi Muslim women) and your insistence upon applying the same rules to both. If the Hijabis were displaying ISIS flags or other symbols, you may have had a point.
So, explain what the difference is between publicly displaying affiliation to an ideology, and publicly displaying affiliation to an ideology. Because I'm not sure I can spot the difference.
("Because one is nasty and one is nice" is not a reasonable answer, BTW)
Original post by Good bloke
So do I. I draw the line at indoctrinating children into irrational beliefs though. I'm happy that adults can be indoctrinated though, as they are capable of making an informed choice.


What's your solution? Take their kids away?

Going to apply the same to Jews, Christians, Hindus etc. etc. etc.?
nothing new here.

-sighs inrlife-
Original post by Inzamam99
Most TSR'ians are such unfortunately. The assumption that it's somehow full of liberal open minded people is erroneous.


I love the idea of two Moslems complaining that people are not liberal enough.
Original post by Good bloke
What you have said is confusing. Are you defending Islam's stance in not allowing women to marry non-Moslems?

I'm just defending the right of Muslims, as well as any other religious group, define their rules of marriage. In this case nobody is discriminated. If a woman doesn't like Muslim laws she is free to leave Islam.
Reply 370
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QE2
20
Original post by teenhorrorstory
So it is reasonable to ban Muslims from his restaurant? Yes or No?
To most people, it is probably unreasonable. To the owner, his decision probably seemed reasonable.
It all depends on context.

Personally, I think he was wrong, especially as he used the "all Muslms are terrorists" argument (although he later retracted it), so in this case his discrimination was ultimately unreasonable.

If his argument had solely been that he refuses to serve all people who subscribe to any ideology that condones or promotes violence, dicrimination and oppression, then it could be argued that it was reasonable (although how it could reasonably be determined who fell into this category is another matter)
Original post by Good bloke
I love the idea of two Moslems complaining that people are not liberal enough.


The irony isn't lost
Original post by admonit
I'm just defending the right of Muslims, as well as any other religious group, define their rules of marriage. In this case nobody is discriminated. If a woman doesn't like Muslim laws she is free to leave Islam.


I agree, in principle. They can marry in a registry office. However, how many Moslem women are really free to leave Islam, especially without attracting an honour-killing punishment?
Original post by Dima-Blackburn

Hysterical. Try again when children learn about and desire to perform human sacrifices by the masses here instead of the usual stories of tolerance and love most children hear within their respective religious frameworks.


A loving stoning, eh? The chopping off of a hand in a caring environment? A flogging that says its sorry? The deprivation of inheritance rights for the good of the woman?

:toofunny?
Original post by Good bloke
I love the idea of two Moslems complaining that people are not liberal enough.


Dima isn't Muslim and I am hardly as well.

Good way to avoid answering the question- what's your solution? To take kids away from all religious parents?
Original post by QE2
To most people, it is probably unreasonable. To the owner, his decision probably seemed reasonable.
It all depends on context.

Personally, I think he was wrong, especially as he used the "all Muslms are terrorists" argument (although he later retracted it), so in this case his discrimination was ultimately unreasonable.

If his argument had solely been that he refuses to serve all people who subscribe to any ideology that condones or promotes violence, dicrimination and oppression, then it could be argued that it was reasonable (although how it could reasonably be determined who fell into this category is another matter)


Is it OK for a Muslim to ban all Jews from his restaurant?
Original post by Inzamam99
Dima isn't Muslim and I am hardly as well.

Good way to avoid answering the question- what's your solution? To take kids away from all religious parents?


My solution is to criminalise such behaviour, as I've said.
Original post by Good bloke
My solution is to criminalise such behaviour, as I've said.


Do you suggest taking kids away from parents who promote their religion to them?
Original post by Good bloke
A loving stoning, eh? The chopping off of a hand in a caring environment? A flogging that says its sorry? The deprivation of inheritance rights for the good of the woman?


Your personal distaste for violent punishments or the Quranic inheritance law isn't a good argument for more totalitarianism.
Original post by Inzamam99
Do you suggest taking kids away from parents who promote their religion to them?


If necessary, yes. It wouldn't be long before the others got the message and ceased abusing their kids if a few were dealt with in that way.

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