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What do you think of muslims who pray at work ?

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Reply 20
Avatar for tr.12
tr.12
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Original post by al-ShagDaddy
Employers should not be forced to provide prayer rooms nor should they be obliged to allow time out of work hours for prayer.


Why not? Its literally like 5-10minutes of the 9-5 working day. What about smoking breaks? Tea breaks? Browsing on google ect ect. 10 minutes wont do any harm.
Reply 21
Avatar for Josb
Josb
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Original post by SunnysideSea
I would merely have to point to the lack of any physical evidence left by him, like footprints in people's fireplaces. I cannot do the same for God as He is not within the universe. Easy.

This is a proof as far as science goes, though, of course, philosophically science never proves anything (think Bertrand Russell's story of the turkey before Christmas)


How do you know that God is not within the universe?
Original post by SunnysideSea
Atheist logic: God (as far as I can tell) didn't answer my prayer, therefore he doesn't exist.

Wow, that's new levels of woeful reasoning I hadn't seen before. Well done. Perhaps he answered it in a way you didn't realise, perhaps the prayer would have actually been damaging, perhaps it would have deprived people of their free will, perhaps it doesn't fit with God's plan. How many responses do you want?

I would also add that it's a category error to compare God to santa claus - santa claus is within the universe, God is external of it. Santa's existence is accessible via the scientific method, God's is not. Don't make that mistake again. Santa can be disproved, God cannot.


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Stop trying to derail the thread. We've had enough of your hissy fit, but thanks.
Original post by Josb
How do you know that God is not within the universe?


Because God is the creator of the universe, and is therefore not bound by it. The only time God has deviated from this, Christians believe, is through Chrst. 'Heavens and earth' are listed as two separate entities, implying separation and different, distinct realms of being.
I had a teacher in 6th form who constantly took time off or wasn't reachable because he literally said he had to pray :rolleyes:
I would go to his office and I wouldnt be allowed in cuz he'd be praying like what the bloody hell
Original post by SunnysideSea
I would also add that it's a category error to compare God to santa claus - santa claus is within the universe, God is external of it. Santa's existence is accessible via the scientific method, God's is not. Don't make that mistake again. Santa can be disproved, God cannot.


I don't think you can have it both ways. If, as you believe, there is such a phenomenon as answered prayer, then that phenomenon must exist in the natural world and is therefore part of the universe. If god can manifest his will in the physical universe by answered prayer or miracles then it is "accessible via the scientific method" as it can be observed, measured and repeated.

Original post by SunnysideSea
I would merely have to point to the lack of any physical evidence left by him, like footprints in people's fireplaces. I cannot do the same for God as He is not within the universe. Easy.

This is a proof as far as science goes, though, of course, philosophically science never proves anything (think Bertrand Russell's story of the turkey before Christmas)


There is plenty of physical evidence, just last year on the 25th December I woke to find a plate of cookies half eaten, a glass of milk empty, presents placed in stockings and what appeared to be reindeer **** all over my roof.

Original post by tr.12
Why not? Its literally like 5-10minutes of the 9-5 working day. What about smoking breaks? Tea breaks? Browsing on google ect ect. 10 minutes wont do any harm.


An employer shouldn't be obliged to provide any of that either. It would be in their best interest to keep the work force happy and engaged, but it shouldn't be an obligation.

Original post by SunnysideSea
Because God is the creator of the universe, and is therefore not bound by it. The only time God has deviated from this, Christians believe, is through Chrst. 'Heavens and earth' are listed as two separate entities, implying separation and different, distinct realms of being.


If christians believe the bible to be the truth then god has "deviated" many more times than that. (By deviate I assume you mean manifest himself in the physical/natural world).

He has used prophets, spoken directly, performed miracles, used angels, appeared in human body, dictated, transported people, provided visions and dreams and once even wrote on a wall.

These all supposedly occurred in the universe, it's hard to argue that it is impossible to prove god because he isn't part of the universe. In christianity god IS part of the universe and often takes an active part in it.
(edited 7 years ago)
Santa is a physical being within the universe, and as such his existence could perfectly easily be ascertained by scientific investigation. God cannot be accessed by the scientific method for at least two reasons: he is outside of the universe (both evidenced by revelation - 'heavens and the earth' - and by the fact that, as the creator of the universe, God is external from it), and is immaterial (science deals only in the physical). Science simply cannot disprove God's existence, thus any refutation of God must come from Philosophy, if anywhere.

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Original post by Hanvyj
Wouldn't care, though I'd rather it be somewhere private simply because it might make me feel kinda awkward? Seems a private thing to me - not that I've ever done it. But then that might be simply because I've no exposure to it. If you worked in my office I'd get used to it probably so it wouldn't be so awkward.

Regarding time lost to praying: Smokers take fag breaks throughout the day and everyone looses some time to the almighty google in my office. I wouldn't care. I wouldn't be surprised if a bit of quite time to think would improve productivity a lot more than the time it takes to do - whether that's praying or going for a walk.


Its not an office its a call centre, we pray on the side where there's some space and where is does now interupt anyone from walking etc.
Original post by al-ShagDaddy
Employers should not be forced to provide prayer rooms nor should they be obliged to allow time out of work hours for prayer.


Why not ? Prayers only take like 5-10 mins, what about smoke breaks for coffee breaks. The other thing is this is a call centre which is inbound so at time we can be waiting 5 mins untill a call comes in. Obviously when calls are queing its different.
Yeah we had a prayer room but now the management use that for some reason, we dont pray in the corridoor, like I said its on the side where it doesnt interupt anyone from walking, obviously that would be silly. Or if there is a class room free we go there.

Like I said its an inbound call centre what if it was quiet and we were waiting 5 mins for a call.
Original post by SunnysideSea
Santa is a physical being within the universe, and as such his existence could perfectly easily be ascertained by scientific investigation. God cannot be accessed by the scientific method for at least two reasons: he is outside of the universe (both evidenced by revelation - 'heavens and the earth' - and by the fact that, as the creator of the universe, God is external from it), and is immaterial (science deals only in the physical). Science simply cannot disprove God's existence, thus any refutation of God must come from Philosophy, if anywhere.

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Do you dispute the accuracy of the bible? Are all the stories fabrications?

"Then the Lord came down in the cloud and stood there with him and proclaimed his name, the Lord."

Am I to understand that Moses was also outside the universe? Mount Sinai is also outside of the universe? Can we not ascertain the existence of a mountain?

There are a large number of similar examples of god being an active and physical presence in the universe. Strangely though, almost all those examples were localised to the Middle East during the Iron Age.
As long as they aren't being paid for it e.g they pray during breaks or they stay on to make up the time it's fine I don't approve of a separate room though
Original post by Josb
Wtf? :lolwut:

Santa exists! :mad:


I met Santa in primary school :colone:
Original post by Patrick Wallace
Do you dispute the accuracy of the bible? Are all the stories fabrications?

"Then the Lord came down in the cloud and stood there with him and proclaimed his name, the Lord."

Am I to understand that Moses was also outside the universe? Mount Sinai is also outside of the universe? Can we not ascertain the existence of a mountain?

There are a large number of similar examples of god being an active and physical presence in the universe. Strangely though, almost all those examples were localised to the Middle East during the Iron Age.


Of course God has entered the universe. This is revealed through divine revelation. But by its nature this is at specific points which Gid himself chooses. Therefore science cannot at any time access Him, as he is not always present in a physical sense.

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Original post by Trapz99
They should definitely be allowed to do so. As a Christian, prayer is an important part of life and I don't think employers should discourage prayer. Muslim prayers don't last that long anyway, it won't exactly change how they work.


I agree. I have recently converted to my South American relatives' religion (it dates back to Meso-American times and is very conservative). Unfortunately, I haven't yet been able to persuade my employer to fund the equipment (just a sharp knife, soap - to remove the blood stains - and a platform) to enable me to carry on the traditional religious activities that are an important part of my life. Can you help?
Original post by Good bloke
I agree. I have recently converted to my South American relatives' religion (it dates back to Meso-American times and is very conservative). Unfortunately, I haven't yet been able to persuade my employer to fund the equipment (just a sharp knife, soap - to remove the blood stains - and a platform) to enable me to carry on the traditional religious activities that are an important part of my life. Can you help?


You're such an idiot. Give people religious freedom. Praying isn't killing.
Original post by Trapz99
You're such an idiot. Give people religious freedom. Praying isn't killing.


I merely ask for freedom to pursue my own beliefs. They are as strongly-held and valid as yours, and more ancient, and there is no need for personal abuse.
Original post by Patrick Wallace
I don't think you can have it both ways. If, as you believe, there is such a phenomenon as answered prayer, then that phenomenon must exist in the natural world and is therefore part of the universe. If god can manifest his will in the physical universe by answered prayer or miracles then it is "accessible via the scientific method" as it can be observed, measured and repeated.


Firstly, the effect of God's will may well have physical repercutions, but his effect is not the same thing as himself. The former is, in theory, accessible via science, the latter is not. Secondly, I say 'in theory' because his effects are not quantifiable due to the fact that God's effects do not operate in the same regular way as the rest of the physical universe. Taking your example of prayer, not only are God's responses sometimes unseen or not understood (and thus difficult to measure), but God is under no obligation to respond to prayer in the way we expect, for example if our wishes contradict with his plan, or if our wishes would result in damage to someone else. Hence, they sometimes aren't observed, are normally difficult to measure, and certainly can't be guaranteed to be repeatable (a necessary condition for science).


Original post by Patrick Wallace

If christians believe the bible to be the truth then god has "deviated" many more times than that. (By deviate I assume you mean manifest himself in the physical/natural world).

He has used prophets, spoken directly, performed miracles, used angels, appeared in human body, dictated, transported people, provided visions and dreams and once even wrote on a wall.

These all supposedly occurred in the universe, it's hard to argue that it is impossible to prove god because he isn't part of the universe. In christianity god IS part of the universe and often takes an active part in it.


In Christianity God is external of the universe, but may affect change within it on occasion (which we may be made aware of through revelation).
Original post by Good bloke
I agree. I have recently converted to my South American relatives' religion (it dates back to Meso-American times and is very conservative). Unfortunately, I haven't yet been able to persuade my employer to fund the equipment (just a sharp knife, soap - to remove the blood stains - and a platform) to enable me to carry on the traditional religious activities that are an important part of my life. Can you help?


Then you should contact your union. Get them to fight for your right to partake in religious activities. And if you contact your finance dept you may find that the sacrificed animals are tax deductible.
(edited 7 years ago)
No problem with Muslims praying during work. It seems a damned sight more wholesome than constant cigarette breaks (assuming they aren't praying for the downfall of Westetn civilisation of course).

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