Help! I think I am going crazy or the world is crazy.

Wait so you crucify us for asking about certain variables, then after this add in your own??

You are already aware of my argument? It is about the speed of light and a very interesting fact or two .

So lets cut to the chase,

You stand on the Sun ( yes I know you can't really stand on the Sun).


I stand on Earth


We look at each other


Like the bullets from a gun, the Photons travel from me to you

and the photons travel from you to me


we see each other the exact same time?

We see each other as they were approximately 8 minutes and 20 seconds before the photons interact with our retinas.

Clearly you have already forgot your yes answer to the bullets.

Think again, I said we see each other at the same time, I did not mention seeing each other as we were 8 minutes and 20 seconds ago.

Let's assume that the photons interact with each other's retinas at the same time relative to a person standing at a point equidistant from both of us. Now what?

Well the vector maths shows us that they do interact with our retinas at the same time.
The distance from A to B and the distance from B to A is always equal and of course the speed of light is constant travelling through a vacuum.

Ok, moving on and you may not see the relevance straight away in this next part.


I am on Earth in my time frame, my now, the present, the moment of time occurring now, do you agree that you on the Sun are also in your now time frame, the present?

I would agree that I would be experiencing what I could only perceive as my 'now' or 'present time frame', since it is the only one it is possible for me to perceive.

And in our discussion thus far, do you thoroughly understand this part

''However, there is an incompleteness about this and in consideration of ALL of the events and completeness, there is seemingly a contradiction, thus leading me to the discussion of the humble but yet so informative ''tube''. Let us look through the tube, a ''Quanta tunnel'', I at one end of the tube and you at the other end of the tube, we will label my end of the tube (A) and we shall label your end of the tube (B), we shall also define the rest length of the tube, defining the rest length of the tube is 299792458 m and define this as one light second of light travel between I and you in either direction the light travels.Now let us consider the present information and how the present information conform's in accordance with the tube. From (A) to (B), a Photon takes one second to travel the distance. From (B) to (A) the Photon takes one second to travel the distance.''If'' we were both to release, emit or reflect a Photon at the exact same time, both opposite points would receive the Photons at the exact same time because of the constant speed of the light. In simple terms if we emitted a Photon each, at exactly 9:00:00 am on synchronised clocks, the individual Photons would reach us at exactly 9:00:01 am, simultaneous on both clocks. In relationship to sight , Photons enter our eyes at 9:00:01 am, but according to present information we observe each other as we were at 9:00:00 am.However, in this scenario we both started at precisely 9:00:00 am , we both experienced one second of time pass by as the light travelled the distance from both points. I, you and the Photon's, all experience the passing of time of a one second duration, while the scenario event takes place.''It is important you understand this before I move on.

Yes, that is 100% accurate.

So it is clear to you that I understand what I am talking about?

I am close on another forum to somebody getting it, I 'see' a problem and it involves 0 distance.


Ok, you are on the Sun and I am on Earth, you are going to travel from your present to me, do you arrive in my present?

When I perceive that I arrive at Earth, you will perceive it at a later time, so you could say that my 'present' would be your 'future' if you want.

Our clocks being synchronous show the same time?

No, this is where it is wrong. They may have been synchronous to start with, but I had to travel from the sun to get to Earth. Both special and general relativity would play a part, and by this time our clocks would no longer be in sync.

Ignore relativistic effects for now, when you are in my time frame our clocks are synchronous,

The small effects of time dilation do not come into this when we are discussing 8 minutes .

The time dilation would have a measurable effect, but if we ignore these effects, then the clocks would remain synchronous relative to a person standing at a point equidistant from both of us. If the observer stayed in the same position as before, he would see the person who is standing closer to him to have the 'faster' clock.

Do you agree if we are holding hands , we are in the same time frame and the present together and seeing each other at the same time?

Let's assume this, then relativistic effects would have played a part, but ignoring those, we are in the same 'present time frame' (although it would still take about half a second to register the image/pressure of the holding hands, but let's ignore this too if you want)

So if you expand away from me, time and the motion are simultaneous, then at any distance we are always in each others present, While you travel away I experience the same amount of time pass as you do, so when you get to lets say 8 light minutes away, we remain in each others present. I am not seeing you in your past, I am seeing you in my present and likewise you see me in my present.

I will do a primitive diagram

We both start at 0

A0B


You expand from me, but relatively neither observer can tell who is moving


A0............B


Ok let us say that r=1 light minute.


A0 time shows 1 light minute

B time shows 1 light minute

Both A and B are in the present frame of time.

It is correct that neither of us can know which one of us is moving. All motion is relative.