Your defence is completely hollow? "UHH ISLAM IS THE PROBLEM COS THE MEDIA CALLS IT ISLAMIC TERRORISM"

please actually discuss this, terror attacks are almost always done for political aims, by hateful people whose lives have turned south by some traumatic events - that alone is more solid than all of your arguments put together

Just read the articele "Why we hate you, why we fight you", in a recent issue of Dabiq (ISIS's online magazine). They are absolutely clear what their motives and justifications are. They are purely ideological. Every statement is accompanied by a passage from the Quran or sunnah. They have stated that the attacks will continue even if all troops are withdrawn, all airstrikes stop and all western interference ends... because they are not after a peaceful status quo, they are after total victory or martyrdom.

What trauma had this four suffered? How had their lives been turned upside down by conflict?

All your hand-wringing, SJW apologetics won't change the reality of the situation.

I will ask you the same question again that you have been avoiding for weeks. If what you say is true, why are there Islamist extremists who are educated, have good careers and are 2nd and 3rd generation citizens of prosperous, liberal democracies?

And why are there so few violent extremists who fit your description (the downtrodden, displaced, tyraumatised, etc), who are not Muslims?

Spoiler

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 64

username2763536

Original post by alevelstresss

Explain to me how the political aims of the Bataclan attackers, revenge for/wanting to stop French airstrikes on ISIS, translates to a religious motivation?

Explain to me how the political aims of the Tunisian museum / beach attackers, wanting to cripple Tunisia's tourism industry, translates to a religious motivation?

Explain to me how the political aims of the various Turkey bombings by the Kurds, revenge for their direct opposition to the Kurds, translates to a religious motivation?

The bataclan attackers attacked the concert because it was an attack on the french way of life.They view the french as unbelievers, and infidels.The people at the concert were having a good time,men and women were dancing together.Isis attacked france because they hate everything france stands for.Secularism and a free society where women arent oppressed.If its not religous at all then why do all these islamic terrorists shout allahu akbar before blowing everyone up.Seeing as that translates to god is great it may imply that religion is a factor.no?

Reply 65

alevelstresss

Original post by Robby2312

This is uninformed nonsense. The Bataclan attackers vocalised their intentions as revenge for French airstrikes on ISIS. Please refrain from making things up from uninformed assumptions.

Reply 66

QE2

Original post by alevelstresss

Political aims include:
- wanting to stop airstrikes (like the Bataclan attackers wanted)

But why do they want to stop surgical strikes against ISIS positions? - Because they support the establishment of the Islamic Caliphate = religion.

- wanting to cripple the country's tourism industry (like Rezgui and the Tunisia museum attackers)

Why? To foment civil unrest, facilitating the overthrow of the government and the establishment of the Islamic Caliphate = religion.

- revenge for airstrikes against terrorist groups

And the stated aims of the terror groups? The establishment of Islamic systems = religion

- wanting to scare the country's population into submission

Submission to what? The Islamic Caliphate = religion

- wanting to legitimise an attack by Islamic State (like Man Haron Monis wanted)

Legitimising religiously motivated acts = religion

The only singular religious aim that I can think of is the Charlie Hebdo attack, but the perpetrators' mother committed suicide and both were involved in petty crime from a young age. Religion is not the main problem here.

An attack expressly and explicitly motivated by religious dogma = erm, this one is a bit more difficult.... Ah, got it. Religion!

And besides, its your word against the terrorism minister in Tunisia. On a BBC Radio 4 programme about two weeks ago, even she admitted that terror attacks are always done for political aims and not religious.

Moderate Muslim politician claims Islam is not a danger. Didn't see that one coming.

Just for balance, here's a Radio 4 programme with several experts claiming that ISIS is religious.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06sb42j

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 67

Emperor Trajan

Original post by alevelstresss

This is uninformed nonsense. The Bataclan attackers vocalised their intentions as revenge for French airstrikes on ISIS. Please refrain from making things up from uninformed assumptions.

Do you think ISIS should be left alone and not attacked with the intention of its removal?

Reply 68

QE2

Original post by alevelstresss

I'm not going to waste time with someone who makes absurd extrapolations. Defend your argument, it shouldn't be too difficult buddy.

Why don't you just block him, like you do with everyone else who presents arguments you can't respond to?

Reply 69

TheUnknownDude

Original post by Emperor Trajan

Do you think ISIS should be left alone and not attacked with the intention of its removal?

They should be destroyed, entirely. We can't have these animals causing havoc around the world on a daily basis.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 70

alevelstresss

Original post by Emperor Trajan

Do you think ISIS should be left alone and not attacked with the intention of its removal?

no, I think ISIS should be eradicated

why?

Reply 71

QE2

Original post by alevelstresss

Explain how terrorising citizens aims to 'spread Islam'? It doesn't.

To quote your good self from an earlier post, you claim that ISIS are..."- wanting to scare the country's population into submission"
They clearly think that using violence and brutality is a legitimate means of getting people to do what you want. And do you know why they think this?
Because there are passages in the Quran and sunnah that support it!

Jeez, even your own apologetics proves that Islamist extremism is, to a large part, religiously inspired! You're not very good at this, are you?

Terrorists never want to spread Islam when they do their attacks,

Despite them explicitly stating that they do? How is it that you know their own motives better than themselves? Is it because you are just making it all up in a desperate attempt to bolster your rapidly crumbling apologetics for extremism?

evidence of this is the fact that Muslims suffer the most from terrorist attacks than all other religions/races combined. Surely if your theory here were correct, they would not be so indiscriminate?

See, now you are just displaying your abject ignorance (or mendacity). Many Islamic sects do not consider the followers of other sects to be Muslims. They see them as Munafiq ("hypocrites" who profess to follow Islam but actually subvert Allah's word.) They are worse than apostates and can be punished with death.

It puzzles me that you are adamant that your opinions are valid, yet you obviously have no idea what you are talking about, despite being informed of the relevant facts on many occasions.

Reply 72

username2763536

Original post by alevelstresss

This is uninformed nonsense. The Bataclan attackers vocalised their intentions as revenge for French airstrikes on ISIS. Please refrain from making things up from uninformed assumptions.

How is it nonsense? Is it just a coincidence that the majority of these attackers are islamic? Why is it that you can always tell which religion these attackers will be before there is confirmation? I think at this point its you who needs to provide evidence that isis has nothing to do with islam.If the bataclan attackers wanted revenge then they should of attacked the state,the government or the army.Instead they chose innocent people because they hate the french way of life.They hate western secularism,gay rights,the liberation of women.Why did they choose to attack charlie hebdo if it had nothing to do with religion?Charlie hebdo published disrespectful images of mohhamed which is a sin in islam.Thats why they were targeted.Why did they choose a jewish supermarket to attack rather than any other shop?Because islam contains anti semitism within it.Why did the orlando shooter choose a gay club to target?He could have chosen any other club.But no he chose a gay nightclub because islam forbids homosexuality.Isis reguarly throw homosexuals of roofs and then stone them.Where does that idea come from?The quran is where it comes from.To say it has nothing to do with islam at this point is simply sticking your head in the sand.You are like nero fiddling while rome burns.

Reply 73

QE2

Original post by alevelstresss

they have specific political/hateful aims,

Yes, the establishment of an Islamic caliphate and the eventual Islamic domination of the world. Coincidentally, this is explicitly prescribed in the Quran and sunnah.
So I can see why you are having difficulty linking the actions of ISIS to Islamic doctrine.

Reply 74

QE2

Original post by alevelstresss

I'll refer you to my other reply.

Muslims die in terror attacks more than any other group. How do these indiscriminate terrorist attacks in the Middle East actually help 'spread Islam'? They don't.

Ah, the "I don't know anything about Islam, and I'll repeat my errors, just so that everyone knows it" argument.
Nice work.

Reply 75

alevelstresss

Original post by Robby2312

There is no coincidence that they are Islamic. The reasoning is because Islam is currently the only religion in the world which has a terrorist group claiming to purport the 'true' version of the religion while inciting violence - and actively encouraging Muslim nationals in foreign countries to commit atrocities in its name.

So if you have a hateful Muslim living in western society, their hateful feelings can attract them to extremist groups like ISIS - which legitimise these feelings into anti-Western political hatred. This causes them to do the attacks, not a heart-filled desire to help Islam.

The original point was that the Bataclan attackers had a political motivation. They vocalised it, witnesses reported that they said it was "revenge for airstrikes in Syria" - unless you were in the Bataclan during the attack and you have a contradictory story? If so, please share. I'd love to know why your hypothetical nonsense about them wanting to attack France because of their way of life trumps the fact that a hostage reported that they vocalised opposition towards France's bombing of ISIL.

And once again, I'm not saying it has nothing to do with Islam. I'm saying Islam is a factor, but a negligible one, one not worth attacking - because whinging about Islam being barbaric evidently is not helping whatsoever.

Reply 76

Emperor Trajan

Original post by alevelstresss

no, I think ISIS should be eradicated

why?

Just curious. So would you be supportive of French intervention and their support of rebel groups for the eradication of ISIS?

Reply 77

alevelstresss

Original post by Emperor Trajan

Just curious. So would you be supportive of French intervention and their support of rebel groups for the eradication of ISIS?

I support western intervention to eradicate terrorist groups, but it would be more ideal if the local Arab powers would do their part. The whole idea of a "West vs Terrorism" is a war that will never be won.

Reply 78

Good bloke

Original post by alevelstresss

Islam is a factor, but a negligible one,

The mind boggles as to how you can possibly process all the information, starting from words of the Koran, through the actions and, crucially, the statements of ISIS to arrive at this preposterous statement.

Islam, and the attempt to create a worldwide caliphate, drives everything they do, say and think.

Reply 79

alevelstresss

Original post by Good bloke

Take a quick skim-read of any case study of any of these terrorists who attack westerners, and you'll see that EVERY SINGLE TIME their lives go south because of a traumatic event or series of events, they develop hateful feelings and these hateful feelings are legitimised by terrorist groups like ISIS.

Islam is not the initial thing which causes them to become hateful. Its just that radical interpretations of Islam are the veils behind which they hide to feel not so bad about themselves. To actually believe that these people want to help Islam is to fall for their lies and to legitimise their actions.